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08-14-91 Planning Commission MINCITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 8-14-91 AT 8PM At 7PM David Licht, Bob Kirmis, Elaine Beatty, Judy Hudson from Staff and Council Persons Doug Lindenfelser, Floyd Roden, Larry Fournier, Ron Black & Norman F Freske, Mayor were present, The following Planning Larry Fournier Bruce Rask Jim Kolles Commission Members were present: Mark Wallace Kathy Lewis Ing Roskaft Carl Swenson David Licht went over Riverwood Conference Center's request with the persons present. 8:05PH Chairman Ina Roskaft called the Planning Commission Meeting to order. The Minutes of the 8-7-91 Planning Commission Meeting will be considered at the meeting of 9/4/91. Licht said that maybe we should consider having major business commercial at the 042 and 0101 intersection. Rask pointed out that maybe we should not allow that because we may loose our cloverleaf in the future on #39 and 0101. Licht said we can control it by Zoning and Land Use. Land use of 442 and 0101 has to be what the City has assigned to that area. All it says is the character of the multiple housing can be more intense. Tax wise for the City, multiple housing is a blessing. Fournier asked how far South and how far West would it be going? Just that area, Licht answered. The land they now own. We would define that area on 042. The darker shaded area on the map. You are dealing in a separate sewer district so it can stand as an island Fournier said, it makes sense. Roskaft said we should take a look at it, We need the taxes and if the sewer capabilities meet MPCA's regulations, it should be looked at. Some discussion was had on Zoning in the area. The City has to take a serious look at that treatment facility. If Darkenwald's would ever sell that property, it is in the lap of the City. They told us 200 homes was the capacity that they had left said Rask. We will attempt to figure out at least geographically, what is a reasonable amount, said Licht. Apartment and multiple families does not mean low and moderate income, is it generally agreed by the Commission that it should be so designated? Lewis motioned to include the County Road #42 and trunk Hwy #101, with the qualification that we discussed, in the immediate service area. Fournier seconded the motion. Swenson asked how much area will we put in there? Roskaft said forty or fifty acres. Licht will pin it down next CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 8-14-91 AT 7 P - PAGE 2 - week. Licht said that we are not prematurely pushing sewer. We just want to address if there is a pollution problem we want to be able to handle it. Is that the agreement of the Commission? Answer was yes. Emphasis has been on sewer when we talk about sewer, but we read other things into it. Page 018 - 01. This is not part of the Plan. We are just stating an issue, It was brought to Elaine's attention by a resident. Licht stated that an item on which he does need direction is on septic system pumping. In Metro Council Area, one year pumping is used (annually). The reason it is there is because you don't have to provide sewer. The people need to know that there is a maintenance factor that needs to be maintained. Roskaft thought it should be throughout the City. Freske said the immediate urban service area. Rask said he felt it should be throughout the City. Licht said he felt it should be at least the platted areas. Fournier stated he felt we should have education classes conducted throughout the City. Licht said you have a very clear mandate that you don't want sewer on a premature basis. Fournier stated that We don't want everything shoved down our throat. In a one acre lot situation, your problem becomes everyone else's problem. Rask said that a lot of people would rather pump their septics than have sewer. Roskaft asked if the City would have a City sanitation expert'? Answer was that we will have a Building Inspector who will be qualified to be a sewer system inspector. Licht stated don't worry about the details now, only do you want this in the plan or not. Rask motioned to adopt the septic system pumping, to be refined at a later date, applying to platted areas. Wallace seconded the motion. Fournier stated that he would like to include information and public education. Motion carried unanimously. Service Area Boundary rational: Licht said it needs to be clarified and beefed up in the document, Commercial Area Designation: Does the City have a policy of open commercial designation in any commercial areas that may be so designated. You can not afford to do that as it will work to your determent in the terms of Long Range Planning. Our position is that you are CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 8-14-91 AT 7PM - PAGE 3 - not noing to get a Dayton -Hudson out here you don't have enough population base to support 53 acres of Commercial. Where is it going to be? The Highway Plan was only one factor. We are saying that there is limited commercial potential. We see it first at 039 and then 042. 1 will also comment that I agree with Mr Darkenwald's that the Highway Department has no plans to have a freeway on 0101, but I can request a letter from them saying that they will not build a freeway there, but they won't give us a letter. They have talked about a freeway in 20 - 26 years in documented meetings we have put on 039 emphasis, 042 the second emphasis, 0122 (037) the less emphasis yet. I need to know what you want to do with it said Licht. Fournier asked what opportunity does priority one have as far as uses? Licht said 01 will have broader uses. You may want to put priority on #1 instead of #2• Industry on 042. Shopping Center or Motel, 039 would be a higher priority. An Industrial Plant does not need immediate access to the highway. Licht asked what they wanted to do with it? Rask said he wants to stay with the plan, 042 Licht stated he also sees as a traffic carrier that will serve Commercial, again, the type is what becomes questionable. A supermarket does not need direct access to 101 necessarily. See PC -82091 File. CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 8-14-91 AT 7PM - PAGE 4 - (Continued from File PC -71991) Swenson said he has no problem with the concept as we talked about it. Fournier stated he would like to see both areas included and he felt in time we would see them blend together. Licht stated that we do not have the population base to support major commercial. You are more like a Delano than Buffalo. You are fairly confined. In my lifetime you won't see that one mile area develop Your major flexibility is industrial. if you can influence plants to locate here you have much better success. Rask motioned to keep the plan as it is, but have better clarification with 039 as primary. Lewis seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously. Licht noted we met with Darkenwald and changed #42 from an interim use. Licht said that Lakeville put a moratorium on development and they have an inventory of 3,000 lots now, so it was more political than anything else. You need to see what is your most beneficial development. You need to look at the ultimate as to where you are going Licht said. Industrial Areas: we need to clarify where we are talking about. We were proposing to create three Industrial Areas. #101 would be hi -test (brick and mortar W/Blacktop parking spaces, etc.) First Industry in there will set the character for the rest. In looking at #94, it was my version of a step-down from #101 with anything along the freeway hi -test, and behind that more outside storage, less yard space, etc. The final- area would be the area with more outside storage, more morton buildings, etc. Licht said he is not sure that is right. Roskaft asked if Lakeville had extended home businesses over the years? Licht said yes now they have none. Licht said he is extremely concerned that we are three months late with the Comp Plan. We need to get into Zoning. Let's get the third Industrial area into the plan and get. it adopted. We can go on to the Ordinance and come back and amend the plan if necessary, Gary Swenson is willing to sell for Commercial. He has a Cabinet Shop, Licht asked how the Commission felt on the following: Do they concur #101. is a showplace area? Answer -Yes Do they concur on #94 frontage hi -test? Answer -Yes The rest will be determined when 3rd area is defined. Proposal is 15,000 Sq Ft pole barn in Comm. area on 439 & 442. What are YOU accepting as building standards needs -to be established. Unless you have brick on all sides, Licht feels VOU shouldn't allow pole barns. He said one good building is worth 5 bad ones. Ron Black said land values are based on buildings. It creates a better climate for more CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 8-14-91 AT 7PM - PAGE 6 - stable enterprises. The highway commercial is the strongest market. They will be here because of the numbers out there. Development for development's sake is not good. Wild and Scenic River Area: The area W of 101 should be included in the Wild and Scenic area, they are saying. We need to re-evaluate at this point any area E of #39 is in Wild and Scenic. There are some grants available and maybe they want to dump some money in it. Licht asked if the Commission's concensus is that the area to the East Wild and Scenic and to the West non Wild and Scenic? Yes, Roskaft asked about animals in the urban area. On the 21st it will be addressed if there is time. How will we handle -the meeting on the 21st on Comp Plan'? Dave said if there are any questions on the plan or a quick over -view summary, any questions and go as fast as possible to these seven areas. This is what has been agreed upon by the Planning Commission, then it is up to the P.C. you can close the hearing and recommend to the Council or have -two weeks of written comments until the 4th of Sept. and have the Council take it Lip on the 2nd meeting of September. Roskaft said we should make the decision on the 21st. Licht said he agrees that -there is no reason to extend it. Ron Black noted that he has a growing concern in the length of time it is taking for the Comp Plan, etc. He stated he would like to see the Commission seriously set down and decide on some dates and commit to these dates. Recognizing that delays, etc can come into play. I would like you to consider some timelines for some commitments next meeting. (estimated time lines and dates). Licht said we are getting more done in a shorter time then any other Community he has worked for. Ing said he wants to get the Comprehensive Plan finished for the 21st and come to a decision to approve. At 9:46 the meeting adjourned. J Am U V S, SEC ETARY ELAINE BEATTY, RECORDING SECRETARY EB