09-18-91 Planning Commission MINCITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 9/18/91
AT SPM
The meeting was called to order by Chairman, Ing Roskaft
at SPM.
Minutes of the 9/11/91 Planning Commission Meeting were
considered. Motion by Carl Swenson to approve the minutes.
Seconded by Bruce Rask. Motion carried unanimously.
Planning Commission Members present as follows:
KATHY LEWIS ING ROSKAFT
LARRY FOURNIER CARL SWENSON
BRUCE RASK MARK WALLACE
JIM KOLLES ( WAS ABSENT)
Staff present as follows=
David Licht Elaine Beatty Judy Hudson
3. Kent Nielson -- Island View Estates PUD Hearing, Re: Lots
10 & 11, Block 7, Island View Estates. Sec 11, Township 121,
Range 24, City of Otsego, Co of Wright.
Roskaft turned the meeting over to Dave Licht at this
point. Licht explained that he and Elaine Beatty met in a
Staff meeting with the Nielsons. They stated that one lot
was less than an acre. The response was that more lots were
more than an acre in size in Island View Estates, and the way
to rectify it is place a PUD on Island View Estates (Cond.Use
Permit) and if more are over
will all work out. DNR was
with Dale Homuth of DNR. To
office was notified of the H
story came out as to why DNR
sale independently of Lots 1
Because Lot 11 was substanda
sold with Lot 10 because the
family house, as well as a d
Engr and Bob Kirmis of NAC's
site and their concern was t
driveway put on the site, bu
There was a comment made by
relatively very few lots lef
are difficult to build on.
these lots. Some of the lot
for development& There are
request.
one acre and some are less, it
against the PUD and NAC debated
m Salkowski, Wright Co P & Z
earing and at that point, another
and the County had opposed the
0 & 11, Block 7 Is View Estates.
rd, the County said it had to be
lot will not substain a single
rainfield. Larry Koshak, City
office went out and viewed the
hat there may be a house with a
t it would have to be surveyed.
the City Council that there were
t in Island View Estates and they
Attention needs to be paid to
s should have never been approved
one of two actions for Nielsons
1. Leave the County action on Lots 10 & 11, Block 7,
Island View Estates. (Keep them together).
2. A Certificate of Survey be prepared with topography
and site I.D's being made to determine if it can be built on.
J Licht said that the other matter that they have raised
is the issue of the PUD. It has two twists. 1) Recognize
the sub -standard lots, but because of the lots left in Island
View, place the requirement that any vacant lots have to come
`i before the City Engineer for review to see if they are
buildable. Requiring it to be formally brought before you
may be going a little too far. It should be attended to. It
is making up for what was not done when the property was
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 9/18/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 2 -
platted.
Fournier asked if we did the second scenario, how would
we address the lot size?
Patricia Nielson commented that they never had an
opportunity to tell what there story was at the Co. We
bought two lots and we thought that we would build on one and
her husband's parents would build on the other one. Mr
Nielson's business was going to be moving. At no time were
they aware of any problem on the lots she said. When DNR
came in and made the comments that they should be kept
together, they thought Island View owned the lots. We knew
nothing about this. We were going to build on one or the
other and put up a "for sale" sign. A lady wanted to buy the
lot, and the Realtor said it did not meet the one acre
requirement. We went to Wright Co and they said the lots
could not be separated. We would like to sell one and keep
the other, and I don't see why we can't. Licht said that
4 Nielson's failure to record the Contract for Deed was not the
County's, City's or DNR's problem. That was their
responsibility to do and secondly, and what is our concern,
is that Island View was given notice. That's why we are
saying that their potential recourse is a law suite against
Island View.
Mrs Nielson asked what would happen if someone else had
bought that lot. Licht said that the only thing they could
do would be sue the developer.
Mr Bame, the developer of Island View Estates was in the
audience and said that Meyer-Rohline of Buffalo, whom
he believes was recommended to him by the Township, platted
Island View Estates for him. The County accepted the plat,
and Meyer-Rohline measured it, we didn't said Bame. He said
there are 25 lots left in Island View and 5 lots need to be
filled.
Roskaft said that the County accepted the plat as
surveyed and they don't go back and re -survey plats. If the
surveyor is wrong, it is up to the developer to sue the
surveyor, not the County.
Nielson said Lot 11 is not a buildable lot and he can't
see why he can't get a variance and build on it. He said he
bought the lot from Mr. Bame, who is the Island View
Developer, who happens to be his Brotherw-In-Law, and that is
another problem.
Mr Nielson claimed that Lot 10 is buildable. Licht said
that NAC and the City Engineer has looked at it and suggested
that Mr Nielson do a detailed survey and site plan with Topo.
information. If there are drainage problems that need to be
addressed, it is ordinarily dedicated to the City. The City
is not the one to fall back on in terms of bailing one out of
this, and they do not have a copy of the survey on this. If
there is a survey, it should be submitted to the City
Engineer stated Licht.
y
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 9/18/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 3 -
Mr Nielson talked about the drainage ditch and if the road is
blacktopped it probably would need to be fixed at that time.
Roskaft said that one lot up there was used for a gravel
pit and had some rusty machinery in it. Nielson said it is
not his lot, but Lot #13 or #14.
The DNR is saying that it can not be sold as independent
lots now said Licht. They said that Lot 10 because of the
revine, they do not see as a buildable lot, and because Lot
11 is sub -standard in size, they required them to be combined
and sold as such. Licht said that the problem with the
Island View Plat is that it does not have topography. The
issue is not the 70 sq ft short. The problem is lot 10, not
lot 11.
Al Ellerass, of 10084 Kahler, Block 7, Lot 9 in Island
View Estates said lot 10 is not buildable. It provides
drainage for a lot of Island View Estates Development area.
There is not space for two buildable lots on that area.
Mike Schneider - Lives on Lot 12 and reinforced what Mr
Ellerass said. There is a large drainage ditch and would be
counted as a bluff line as far as the DNR is concerned he
said. He is bounded by revines there so he would probably
have trouble meeting the set -back requirements he stated
about Nielson's property.
Roskaft brought the discussion back to the Planning
Commission.
Licht said that if and when a Building Permit is
submitted, we need topographic informaiton at that time and a
site survey. The City Engineer would not do that. Nielson's
would have to get their own information.
A resident of one of the adjoining lots said that the
revive thru Nielsons property is as big as this room and also
as deep. If Nielson puts in a culvert in his driveway, it
will create more problems said the residents of the adjoining
lots.
Licht said part of the fustration is we don't have
enough information. The other thing is drainage problems.
Swenson asked if they were to build one house, would it
still be required to have a Certificate of Survey? Licht
said yes they would.
Drainage being put in and assessed back to Island View
Estates was discussed and what had been done in Hall's
Addition was discussed.
They are saying there is not a buildable site on that
lot because Lot 10 is not buildable as it stands today. Lot
11 is buildable and both of the lots have the same owner.
What the County and DNR is saying is that if the Nielsons
1 brought two lots and have no buildable one, it is the problem
of the seller, said Licht. If the seller has a problem with
his professional Engineer, it is his problem.
Mrs Nielson said we can't build on Lot 10 because of
drainage problems. Why can't we build on Lot 11, by itself?
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 9/18/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 4 -
The County and the DNR has said that they don't want Lot 10.
Mr Nielson said he thinks this problem should be addressed
now.
Licht said that maybe we need to refer this to the City
Engineer. Maybe we should try to address it now. (the
drainage problem). There are problems that a lot of the lots
that are there are taking drainage for the balance of the
site. This is a Sub --division that the drainage was not
addressed on. When drainage is not addressed, the last lots
are the problem lots as they effect drainage. Maybe the
recourse at this time is to refer to the City Engineer to
look at the problem.
Rask asked would they get a Certificate of Survey at the
same time?
Licht said that as part of a City problem there will be
Engineering that needs to be addressed. A Hearing would need
to be set upon that.
Charles Burning lives across the road from Lot 10. He
said Lot 10 is not taking on water. It is draining thru.
Licht said that if the problem would have been handled
properly, a drainage project would be in the project. It was
apparently not done. That lot is becoming restricted because
of drainage. If they fill it, the other properties will
flood. You have to discharge that water someplace. It
becomes the cost of that sub --division. You have runoff and
that should have been addressed when the plat went in.
A resident said that the Wild and Scenic Act prevents
them from filling. There was some discussion on this.
Roskaft said we can make the recommendation to have the
City Engineer look at this.
Fournier motioned to table this action and continue the
hearing until we have more information from the Nielsons and
the Planning Commission do a Site Inspection of Lots 10 & 11,
Block 7, Island View Estates. Carl Swenson seconded the
motion.
Wallace said if they do a site inspection without a
topography map, can we make a decision?
Roskaft said you will get a chance to study the entire
area.
Rask said he would rather refer this to the City
Engineer rather than a site inspection.
Fournier said he is not familiar with these lots.
Lewis agreed with Rask that she would like to have the
Engineer look at it.
Swenson asked who will pay for it?
Bame said approximately 5 lots in Island View need some
� ) fill.
Rask said if we address Nielson's and don't have it
looked at by the Engineer, we would have problems later.
Rask said there are all kinds of washouts between Island
View and his house from rains.
.-)
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 9/18/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 5 -
Licht said that it could be that the revine may have to
be left as a drainage site.
Fournier said that as a Planning Commission, we should
look at it, and the Engineer needs to be involved also.
The motion carried with all agreeing except Bruce Rask
who opposed the motion.
Date of Monday, September 23, 1991 at 5:15PM was set to
view Lots 10 & 11 of Island View Estates, Block 7. The
Commission will meet at the City Hall.
The Nielson's PUD Hearing will be continued until
October 2, 1991 at 8PM.
Mr Nielson stated that he would also be at his property
on September 23, 1991 at 5:15 for any questions.
Licht told the Planning Commission that as far as he has
heard, the Planning Commission and Council has taken a firm
stand on billboards and off premise advertising. Franklin
Sign will be present and they are very concerned about
billboards. Licht has tried to take a neutral position at
this time. However, he had a call from Clem Darkenwald and
he told Clem that when we get to the sign ordinance we should
say they can come to the Planning Commission and have ten or
fifteen minutes to make their pitch. ( See PC --9/19/91 file)
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CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 9/18/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 6 - (Continued from File PC -82091)
Licht said another matter is the Summary of the Staff
Meetings of the City which are held.
On Antelope Park Sub -division, Dennis Moore has a
triangle property SW of the subdivision and we have told Mr.
Moore that property will not access onto #39. He met with us
last Thursday (Mr Moore). Would you consider allowing
attached single family houses (4 -clustered)? Because of the
power station there is not much buildable land there.
Rask said he doubts that there is a buildable site on
that lot.
Woolston is required to run a street to Moore's property
line. It would be under a PUD (Gond Use Permit). The
Planning Commission said they are willing to look at this
clustered housing.
Licht said Planning Commission should look at the sites
before the Hearing and some Cities post signs saying " This
site is subject to Zoning Consideration".
Licht gave a brief overview of the Staff Meeting Items
of 9/12/91.
We then started over the Zoning Ordinances at Section 17 -
Page #25:
P9 26-8. Rask said what is the definition of monument?
Unless it says you can have it, you can't, said Licht. But
a monument definition will be put in.
Licht said 940 Sq Ft is the basic house most communities
accept.
Pg 29-C. Sr Housing Licht suggests leave this as is. Sr
Housing is positive.
P 30-20--17-9 - May apply to Darkenwald if they have multiple
dwellings. P9 31 & 32 -- 20-17w-11 Single Family Dwellings.
This regulation will preclude mobile housing because of
standards. P9 35 A-E Model home need be approved by
Council. P9 36 Site and Building Plan Review ( Multiple
family, Commercial and Industrial.) Subject to review by the
planning commission and Council. 9/26/91 Planning Commission
Meeting we will have Zoning Ordinances Only and start on
Section #22, Page #37- Off Street Parking Requirements.
Licht will have response on items from last meeting.
Fournier motioned to adjourn the meeting. Wallace 2nd the
motion. Motion carried unanimously. 10:30 adjournment.
-J JAMES R KOLLES, JEJRETARY
ELAINE BEATTY, RECORDING SECRETARY
J EB