09-25-91 Planning Commission MINCITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 9-25/91
AT 8PM
Roskaft called the meeting to order at 8PM.
Planning Commission members present were as follows:
BRUCE RASK JIM KOLLES LARRY FOURNIER
CARL SWENSON ING ROSKAFT KATHY LEWIS
MARK WALLACE
Council member Ronald G Black was present.
The Following Staff was present:
DAVE LICHT BOB KIRMIS ELAINE BEATTY
DAVE CHASE
There was a Site Inspection of Kent Nielson Lots 10 and
11, Block 7 in Island View Estates on 9/23/91 at 5:15PM and
the following Planning Commission Members attended:
LARRY FOURNIER ING ROSKAFT CARL SWENSON
MARK WALLACE BRUCE RASK JIM KOLLES
Licht said the Commission should go over the Zoning Ordinance
on Signs on 10-9-91 Planning Commission Meeting. (Licht will
not be this meeting)
Roskaft brought up that maybe we could have some
Planning Commission meetings another night than Wednesday.
Licht brought up that we should allow Clem Darkenwald,
Franklin Simon Co and the St Cloud sign Co that had expressed
an interest in our Sign Ordinance and any other persons
interested, to be at our October 9, 1991 Planning Commission
Meeting to have input on this Ordinance. Ron Black stated
that h6 thinks we should invite others in who are interested
in our Sign Ordinance.
Licht stated that the premises is to let them come in
and provide them with a copy of the proposed sign ordinance
before hand.
Swenson and Fournier stated they feel we should hear
them before we adopt the Ordinance and we should consider the
information when we adopt the Ordinance.
Rask asked why we don't have any billboards as yet?
Licht said one reason is because you have to have Commercial
and Industrial Zoning to have billboards.
We need to establish a time so we can make arrangements
for these people to come in for a presentation.
The signing of the Comprehensive Plan is what prompted
Franklin Sign to come in to talk about signs.
Fournier said he felt it would be fine to have another
night other than Wednesday for a Planning Commission Meeting.
Roskaft then officially called the Planning Commission
Meeting to order and asked about the consideration of the
minutes of 9/18/91 Planning Commission Meeting.
Rask motioned to accept the minutes of 9/18/91. Wallace
seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.
Rask said we could set from 8 to 8.25 for the Sign
Ordinance on the 9th of October.
Lewis motioned to hear from an audience on the Sign
Ordinance on October 9, 1991 starting at 8PM. Swenson
seconded the motion.
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 9/25/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 2 -
Fournier stated that his only concern is getting thru
the Zoning Ordinances. He asked how much this will set us
back?
Licht answered it's part of it. Licht said if you don't
do it up front it will lengthen the process.
Motion carried with all but Roskaft who abstained.
Licht went back in the Zoning Ordinance to an area where
there had been a question as to if there is too much detail
in the Ordinance and is it too Urban in character? Licht
said it is not detailed enough. He said the more detail you
have, the better off you are. It establishes guidance and
direction. This type of Ordinance has been applied to as
many rural communities as urban communities. Alleys are in
there because 33' streets may eventually be used for alleys.
The point is they are there if you need them. The point is
the less control you have or less direction you set up front
the less you will have in getting this community where you
want it, Licht said. He has used this boiler plate ordinance
in many communities (he named them) there is no way we can
make an ordinance that is simple. It doesn't work. The
community will have good familiarity with it. The Attorney,
Planner, Engineer, and Zoning Administrator will be more
familiar with the ordinances.
The plan is Urban oriented because that is where your
problems are. It is my understanding that 1500 square foot
be allowed for accessary use. It is close to double to any
area we work in. two detached garages are uncommon. It may
be advantageous because of the amount of outside storage you
have. As far as alleys, Carl Swenson said he is the one that
questioned it. If we don't allow alleys, why have it in?
Licht said some of those may end up in a development area as
a secondary access to homes. Swenson said the thing that
bothers him is if we say no alleys and then we make
provisions for alleys, we are inviting problems. We talked
about alleys and we are dealing with an area that is legally
parceled off (Old Otsego Townsite being referred to).
SWIMMING POOLS: Licht thinks it is State regulated and
he will look at it further.
As far as fencing and screening of a corner lot issue,
Licht said he doesn't know of a community that doesn't have
it. It is a safety concern. Open fences are allowed by the
line. You need to have visibility.
As far as Sales in Ag and Residential Areas, no more
than one merchandise item for the calendar year is what we
now have in the Ordinance. What do you want?
Black said if you go any more then one, you will get
into a problem. Swenson said he doesn't like the "let's put
it in" in case we need it. Licht said he disagrees with him.
It is the person abusing it that is the problem. You have to
have something to fall back on. Licht said he feels if it's
in the rules, it should be applied.
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 9/25/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 3 -
Page #31, Section #22:
Wallace said on 1500 square feet of accessory space, the only
way you get 900 square feet is if it's a three car attached
garage. Whatever number you set, somebody will come in and
want more, Licht said.
Page 25, 20-17-2: Is there reason that 750 square feet
usable open space? Per unit 750 usable space. This is for
active space. You can have a lot of space on a lot, but the
question is, is it usable space?
Section 22: Off Street Parking Regulations. Licht said
it is fairly time tested. This is based on a study of
parking demands, users, etc. You will have people coming in
and saying haw do you calculate parking? It is ten percent
(10%) of the gross floor area. It simplifies the process and
it is successful. Pg. 38 - Item F: Residential Area
Parking: Accessory to residential use, etc. Licht said
this is very important. A residential street is less
capacity then a collector street. It is built to take dump
trucks, semi -trucks, etc. When semi --trucks come into a
residential area, it is a safety hazard said Licht. Fournier
said personally he doesn't want to allow it. Lewis asked
what is 12,000#? Answer: A 3/4 ton pickup. What about a
neighbor that owns his own truck? What are we going to do
with him, Swenson asked?
Licht said after the Ordinances are in place, you need
to start cleaning it up and give them a little time and work
with them. Code enforcement is a delicate matter but needs
to be confronted head on. Black talked about code
enforcement.
Roskaft asked if in the light industrial area, there
could be a place to park their trucks? Wallace asked what
about large motor homes? You can park recreational vehicles.
It is how they are licensed. They have to be recreational
equipment.
Roskaft asked about trucks and motorhomes? How far can
we go? Licht said as far as you want. In St Louis Park you
can't park a mobile home or trailer over 72 hours. They have
mini -storage. That's where you park your recreational
vehicles and trailers. You can limit the number of
recreational vehicles or maintain a high level of accessory
building space and say only one or two can be parked outside.
Pg 40 - #7: Curb cuts limited to 24'.
Pg 40 -- #10: Grade 4%: On a major parking lot it is a
major grade. Licht said he is thinking of changing it as it
may be a problem.
Pg 40 - #12: We have said that all driveways in the
City are to be surfaced concrete or asphalt. You may want to
say in the immediate service area. If you put in that
requirement, you are increasing your housing amount.
Pg 40 - #15: It says if you have a major parking lot
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 9/25/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 4 -
you have to have it hard surfaced and curb barrier around it.
When dealing with the DNR & Wild and Scenic having a curb and
directing the water is important. (curbed and landscaped)
Pg 41 - #16: A factor of dressing up the community. Pg
41 ~ #17: Snow storage - Adequate space needs to be
provided.
Pg 41 ~ #18z Driveway turn around. Allows you to not
back into the street.
Pg 42 - D- Boulevard - is it defined to be the ditch as
well, was asked? Licht will check on it.
P9 42 - F: Talks about surfacing requirements of
driveways.
Pg 42 _, G= Recreational equipment is addressed.
Pg 43 - 20-22-8: Handicapped parking. This is a
reiteration of the State law. The parking requirements came
from the institute of parking engineers.
Pg 46 - CC and DD are very important. You can determine
parking on an individual basis. Item DD is space reduction
(Riverwood Conference Center has requested this).
Pg 46 - 20-21-10: .joint Facilities. Minn -E -Golf wants
joint facilities with Tom Thumb.
Pg 49 M Off street loading. City needs to apply this
Tom Thumb is an example of not having it.
Pg 52 - Land filling operations. It's not talking about
house excavation if you fill 50 cu. yds, you need a permit.
Drainage information is the reason for grading plans.
Pg 56 - Sec. 25: Land excavation, grading and drainage.
Roskaft asked about protecting top soil in grading and
excavation. Licht will put in.
Pg 52 - 20-24-1 Permit required. Black asked if the
exception allows a lot to be filled after a building permit
is taken out. Licht said maybe we need to add where there is
not an approved grading and drainage plan you need to come
in. Roskaft said also we should know where the fill is
coming in. Source of fill is on the application said Licht.
Pg 60 - Home Occupations."
Licht said he recommends we don't allow Home
Occupations. Licht suggests we define two types - A
permitted and a Special Home Occupation. Some have no
impact, you just identify them. Special Home Occupations
start to infringe a little more. You get a permit (license)
not a Conditional Use Permit. The Ag Area Home Extended
Business was discussed. Home Occupation is Urban, oriented
use. Conducted in the structure by people living on the
premises.
Next meeting of Planning Commission we will start on
Page 65 (Day Care Nursery Facilities)
The meeting was a journed at IOPM.
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DAME R KOLLES, SECRE ARY -�By, Elaine Beatty, Recording Sec.