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09-25-91 Planning Commission MINCITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 9-25/91 AT 8PM Roskaft called the meeting to order at 8PM. Planning Commission members present were as follows: BRUCE RASK JIM KOLLES LARRY FOURNIER CARL SWENSON ING ROSKAFT KATHY LEWIS MARK WALLACE Council member Ronald G Black was present. The Following Staff was present: DAVE LICHT BOB KIRMIS ELAINE BEATTY DAVE CHASE There was a Site Inspection of Kent Nielson Lots 10 and 11, Block 7 in Island View Estates on 9/23/91 at 5:15PM and the following Planning Commission Members attended: LARRY FOURNIER ING ROSKAFT CARL SWENSON MARK WALLACE BRUCE RASK JIM KOLLES Licht said the Commission should go over the Zoning Ordinance on Signs on 10-9-91 Planning Commission Meeting. (Licht will not be this meeting) Roskaft brought up that maybe we could have some Planning Commission meetings another night than Wednesday. Licht brought up that we should allow Clem Darkenwald, Franklin Simon Co and the St Cloud sign Co that had expressed an interest in our Sign Ordinance and any other persons interested, to be at our October 9, 1991 Planning Commission Meeting to have input on this Ordinance. Ron Black stated that h6 thinks we should invite others in who are interested in our Sign Ordinance. Licht stated that the premises is to let them come in and provide them with a copy of the proposed sign ordinance before hand. Swenson and Fournier stated they feel we should hear them before we adopt the Ordinance and we should consider the information when we adopt the Ordinance. Rask asked why we don't have any billboards as yet? Licht said one reason is because you have to have Commercial and Industrial Zoning to have billboards. We need to establish a time so we can make arrangements for these people to come in for a presentation. The signing of the Comprehensive Plan is what prompted Franklin Sign to come in to talk about signs. Fournier said he felt it would be fine to have another night other than Wednesday for a Planning Commission Meeting. Roskaft then officially called the Planning Commission Meeting to order and asked about the consideration of the minutes of 9/18/91 Planning Commission Meeting. Rask motioned to accept the minutes of 9/18/91. Wallace seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously. Rask said we could set from 8 to 8.25 for the Sign Ordinance on the 9th of October. Lewis motioned to hear from an audience on the Sign Ordinance on October 9, 1991 starting at 8PM. Swenson seconded the motion. CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 9/25/91 AT 8PM - PAGE 2 - Fournier stated that his only concern is getting thru the Zoning Ordinances. He asked how much this will set us back? Licht answered it's part of it. Licht said if you don't do it up front it will lengthen the process. Motion carried with all but Roskaft who abstained. Licht went back in the Zoning Ordinance to an area where there had been a question as to if there is too much detail in the Ordinance and is it too Urban in character? Licht said it is not detailed enough. He said the more detail you have, the better off you are. It establishes guidance and direction. This type of Ordinance has been applied to as many rural communities as urban communities. Alleys are in there because 33' streets may eventually be used for alleys. The point is they are there if you need them. The point is the less control you have or less direction you set up front the less you will have in getting this community where you want it, Licht said. He has used this boiler plate ordinance in many communities (he named them) there is no way we can make an ordinance that is simple. It doesn't work. The community will have good familiarity with it. The Attorney, Planner, Engineer, and Zoning Administrator will be more familiar with the ordinances. The plan is Urban oriented because that is where your problems are. It is my understanding that 1500 square foot be allowed for accessary use. It is close to double to any area we work in. two detached garages are uncommon. It may be advantageous because of the amount of outside storage you have. As far as alleys, Carl Swenson said he is the one that questioned it. If we don't allow alleys, why have it in? Licht said some of those may end up in a development area as a secondary access to homes. Swenson said the thing that bothers him is if we say no alleys and then we make provisions for alleys, we are inviting problems. We talked about alleys and we are dealing with an area that is legally parceled off (Old Otsego Townsite being referred to). SWIMMING POOLS: Licht thinks it is State regulated and he will look at it further. As far as fencing and screening of a corner lot issue, Licht said he doesn't know of a community that doesn't have it. It is a safety concern. Open fences are allowed by the line. You need to have visibility. As far as Sales in Ag and Residential Areas, no more than one merchandise item for the calendar year is what we now have in the Ordinance. What do you want? Black said if you go any more then one, you will get into a problem. Swenson said he doesn't like the "let's put it in" in case we need it. Licht said he disagrees with him. It is the person abusing it that is the problem. You have to have something to fall back on. Licht said he feels if it's in the rules, it should be applied. CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 9/25/91 AT 8PM - PAGE 3 - Page #31, Section #22: Wallace said on 1500 square feet of accessory space, the only way you get 900 square feet is if it's a three car attached garage. Whatever number you set, somebody will come in and want more, Licht said. Page 25, 20-17-2: Is there reason that 750 square feet usable open space? Per unit 750 usable space. This is for active space. You can have a lot of space on a lot, but the question is, is it usable space? Section 22: Off Street Parking Regulations. Licht said it is fairly time tested. This is based on a study of parking demands, users, etc. You will have people coming in and saying haw do you calculate parking? It is ten percent (10%) of the gross floor area. It simplifies the process and it is successful. Pg. 38 - Item F: Residential Area Parking: Accessory to residential use, etc. Licht said this is very important. A residential street is less capacity then a collector street. It is built to take dump trucks, semi -trucks, etc. When semi --trucks come into a residential area, it is a safety hazard said Licht. Fournier said personally he doesn't want to allow it. Lewis asked what is 12,000#? Answer: A 3/4 ton pickup. What about a neighbor that owns his own truck? What are we going to do with him, Swenson asked? Licht said after the Ordinances are in place, you need to start cleaning it up and give them a little time and work with them. Code enforcement is a delicate matter but needs to be confronted head on. Black talked about code enforcement. Roskaft asked if in the light industrial area, there could be a place to park their trucks? Wallace asked what about large motor homes? You can park recreational vehicles. It is how they are licensed. They have to be recreational equipment. Roskaft asked about trucks and motorhomes? How far can we go? Licht said as far as you want. In St Louis Park you can't park a mobile home or trailer over 72 hours. They have mini -storage. That's where you park your recreational vehicles and trailers. You can limit the number of recreational vehicles or maintain a high level of accessory building space and say only one or two can be parked outside. Pg 40 - #7: Curb cuts limited to 24'. Pg 40 -- #10: Grade 4%: On a major parking lot it is a major grade. Licht said he is thinking of changing it as it may be a problem. Pg 40 - #12: We have said that all driveways in the City are to be surfaced concrete or asphalt. You may want to say in the immediate service area. If you put in that requirement, you are increasing your housing amount. Pg 40 - #15: It says if you have a major parking lot CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 9/25/91 AT 8PM - PAGE 4 - you have to have it hard surfaced and curb barrier around it. When dealing with the DNR & Wild and Scenic having a curb and directing the water is important. (curbed and landscaped) Pg 41 - #16: A factor of dressing up the community. Pg 41 ~ #17: Snow storage - Adequate space needs to be provided. Pg 41 ~ #18z Driveway turn around. Allows you to not back into the street. Pg 42 - D- Boulevard - is it defined to be the ditch as well, was asked? Licht will check on it. P9 42 - F: Talks about surfacing requirements of driveways. Pg 42 _, G= Recreational equipment is addressed. Pg 43 - 20-22-8: Handicapped parking. This is a reiteration of the State law. The parking requirements came from the institute of parking engineers. Pg 46 - CC and DD are very important. You can determine parking on an individual basis. Item DD is space reduction (Riverwood Conference Center has requested this). Pg 46 - 20-21-10: .joint Facilities. Minn -E -Golf wants joint facilities with Tom Thumb. Pg 49 M Off street loading. City needs to apply this Tom Thumb is an example of not having it. Pg 52 - Land filling operations. It's not talking about house excavation if you fill 50 cu. yds, you need a permit. Drainage information is the reason for grading plans. Pg 56 - Sec. 25: Land excavation, grading and drainage. Roskaft asked about protecting top soil in grading and excavation. Licht will put in. Pg 52 - 20-24-1 Permit required. Black asked if the exception allows a lot to be filled after a building permit is taken out. Licht said maybe we need to add where there is not an approved grading and drainage plan you need to come in. Roskaft said also we should know where the fill is coming in. Source of fill is on the application said Licht. Pg 60 - Home Occupations." Licht said he recommends we don't allow Home Occupations. Licht suggests we define two types - A permitted and a Special Home Occupation. Some have no impact, you just identify them. Special Home Occupations start to infringe a little more. You get a permit (license) not a Conditional Use Permit. The Ag Area Home Extended Business was discussed. Home Occupation is Urban, oriented use. Conducted in the structure by people living on the premises. Next meeting of Planning Commission we will start on Page 65 (Day Care Nursery Facilities) The meeting was a journed at IOPM. .� DAME R KOLLES, SECRE ARY -�By, Elaine Beatty, Recording Sec.