10-09-91 Planning Commission MINCITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 10/9/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 1 -
The meeting was called to order at 8:05PM by Chairman
Ing Roskaft.
Members present:
CARL SWENSON LARRY FOURNIER ING ROSKAFT
KATHY LEWIS MARK WALLACE BRUCE RASK
JIM KOLLES
The follwing staff was present:
JUDY HUDSON DAVE LICHT ELAINE BEATTY
The following Council Members were present:
NORMAN F FRESKE FLOYD RODEN RONALD G BLACK
The first item on the Agenda was the consideration of
the minutes of Planning Commission Minutes of 10/2/91.
Larry Fournier motioned to adopt the minutes of October
2, 1991. Kathy Lewis seconded the motion. Motion carried
unanimously.
The meeting was then turned over to David Licht who
stated that tonight's meeting was set up in direct response
to Keith Franklin and his concern with the Camp Plan. The
Council and Planning Commission was very interested in prior
to their getting into a discussion of the sign ordinance for
the City that any interested parties by able to speak. The
interested parties were given a copy of the proposed
ordinance. The concept is once there comments are received
their factors will be taken into account and weighed. They
anticipate there will be an informational meeting held first
and then after changes are made the proper hearing will be
held after that. Licht turned the meeting back to Roskaft.
Roskaft then allow Keith Franklin to speak, who was on
the agenda and told everyone he would allow ten to fifteen
minutes each for presentation. Franklin of Franklin Outdoor
Advertising Company addressed the Commission and Licht and
talked about the Sign Ordinance. He said they do want
control, but want to stress the businesses in the community
are not the ones asking for this. They look to other
industry to control it. He said the City down the road
advertises for the other Cities down the road. He said the
businesses that are to come are going to ask for signage. He
turned it over to Mr James Klint from Franklin Outdoor
Advertising Co who spoke about planning and signs, proper
spacing, locating in Commercial/Industrial areas and
foresight to set regulations. He talked about the business
expo sign they donated to Elk River Chamber of Commerce. He
spoke about tourism and asked the Commission to take a look
at their background. Klint asked them to talk to the Chamber
of Commerce in Elk River/Rogers/St Cloud and asked them to
look at structure on 101 (monopole structure). He talked
about the broad prospective of outdoor advertising and said
give him a call and ask for input, he said he has been in
existence in business for 11 years.
Clem Darkenwald was next to speak and thanked the
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 10/9/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 2 -
Planning Commission for giving him a chance to speak. He
wants to see two billboards, one south of 42 and one north of
42 on #101. He showed a picture of his billboard on the
right side of #10 going north and said it is not very
effective because you have to go S to get to his place. He
is asking for a single sign double faced and showed a Morries
Fish and Seafood Sign picture which is near Brainerd, Mn. He
said attractive signs create a business type climate which is
good for the City. Also he said his trailer with the sign on
it worked for him. A lot of people came in and said they
didn't know he was there. He said he needs s billboard very
bad because sales are down and he has been working with
Skoglund Communications, Inc in St Cloud. He left
information from Skoglund which will be copied for the
Planning Commission and Council. Skoglund was unable to
attend the meeting tonight said Darkenwald.
Wally O'Dell works for Darkenwald's and he said John and
Gil Darkenwald both have experience in the Industrial and
Commercial areas. He said he was pleased to hear Dave
Licht's statement that the proposed Zoning Ordinance has not
been worked on yet. He said that Elk
River/Otsego/Albertville/Rogers/Maple Grove/Eden Prairie, and
more are some of the communities they have worked in. He
stated he would clarify this ordinance as anti -business and
the Planning Commission needs to decide if they want
businesses and it behoves Otsego to put themselves in a
posture that they welcome businesses. He urged the Planning
Commission to look at Elk River's ordinance and suggested
they look at some other Ordinances in other communities.
Let's make our ordinance fit your goals he stated.
Gil Darkenwald said he is in favor of the sign ordinance
and thinks every company needs them. 4x8 real estate signs
were used by him and were very effective when he started his
business. He said signs and businesses are partners. A good
sign well done, with imagination is a salesman twenty-four
hours a day for a small business. He suggested the Planning
Commission not be too restrictive on sign ordinances. He
thinks we should be flexible.
John Darkenwald said that they are negotiating on two
deals on commercial land and they are going on two to three
acre parcels. When you consider their sign ordinance these
companies have minimums and signage is very important to
these people. Please be at least as competitive as your
neighbors. It's important said John.
Licht said the ordinance as it is drafted is reflective
of some of the ideas of the Planning Commission and Council.
Licht stated it is reflective of developing communities,
like Lakeville, and Maple Grove. It is highly reflective of
Frankfort Township's Ordinance which was adopted a year ago.
He said this is part of the Zoning Ordinance and the
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 10/9/91
AT 8PM - PAGE 3 -
Subdivision Ordinance has been processed and is in place.
the next aspect of the ordinance we will process is the
districts. After we have gotten thru the districts we will
get back to the sign ordinances. The whole intent is to get
this information up front. Licht agreed that you have to be
competitive and look at other sign ordinances. He said
Franklin Outdoor Advertising could provide different sign
standards if there are examples available and they can review
them. As we are doing the districts we should let people
know what we are doing so they can have input.
Clem Darkenwald asked if this is the proper time to
address the sign Ordinance. Licht said we need to first get
districts established and will notify Clem when we get to it.
Gil Darkenwald asked if the Zoning and Comp Plan is
established? Licht answered not yet. We have districts and
they will be put together. Gil asked if coming in for a
special use permit is advisable now? Licht answered yes you
can go ahead now.
Fournier said the comments he heard will help him with
his input into the Sign Ordinance. No further work on the
Zoning Ordinance was done.
Fournier asked how the Planning Commission want to
handle their Site Inspections? He said the Council supported
the Planning Commission to have Site Inspections and be
reimbursed. Members felt it should be done at one time and
Elaine Beatty should give the Planning Commission a list of
upcoming Hearings.
Poskaft suggested meeting on Saturday morning at a
specified date and time. Lewis stated she preferred a week
day. During the week would be better than a weekend.
Wallace said evening would work out well because we
could hit all of them in one shot. The middle of the week
would be easier. Fournier agreed. Both agreed with Lewis.
Swenson said that Wednesday, a regular Planning
Commission meeting day may be good.
Lewis said maybe meeting at four or five o'clock on
Wednesday for November 6TH items. Licht said this is unusual
to get these items this far ahead and whenever you set your
inspections NAC will try to get the reports to you ahead of
the Site Inspection.
It was stated that their may have to be two Site
Inspections in a month
Lewis suggested Wednesday, October 16th at 5PM to make
the inspections and stay for the Planning Commission Meeting.
Kolles said he prefers 4PM time.
Wallace motioned to meet in the City Hall at 4PM for
Site Inspection on 10/16/91. Lewis seconded the motion.
Fournier said that maybe we could make it more
permanent saying the lst and 2nd Wednesday of the month at
4PM if needed.
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 10-9-91
AT 8PM - PAGE 4 -
Swenson asked how much time can we be given ahead of
Site Inspection date? Licht said we try to have the
information to Elaine by Thursday so it can get out by Friday
before the Planning Commission Hearing.
We have fifteen working days to get the report out.
Motion carried unanimously.
Roskaft said it is understood if this doesn't work out
we can change it.
Licht said we do not have any more material and he will
have it to us next week or in advance of that.
Animals and Zoning Districts will be looked at next
meeting 10/23/91. Licht said the Shoreland and Wild and
Scenic information will not be available yet.
Licht talked about accessory buildings have not been
agreed to as yet and there are other loose ends. NAC needs
direction on this.
Licht said he has a list of all the issues that their is
a lack of agreement on and maybe it is best to bring them
back when we have total package.
Swenson said we should go on with the ordinances and
come back to pick up loose ends. We probably will get
ordinances for next meeting by Friday so you will have it by
Saturday.
Fournier said he would like Licht to talk about the
changes in the Comprehensive Plan.
Licht went over the changes with the Planning
Commission.
Roskaft asked about the contract on the Planned Unit
Development for Riverwood Conference Center and the Planning
Commission wants to see the finished product. Licht said
they will be furnished with copies of the •Final product when
the Council approves. Licht explained to the Commission
where they are with it at present.
Swenson motioned to adjourn the meeting. Wallace
seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.
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By Elaine Beatty Recording Secretary
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Oct. 8, 1991
To Whom It May Concern:
McDonald's of Monticello
100 Oakwood Drive
P.O. Box 848
Monticello, Minnesota 55362
612/295-5140
The billboards on 94 are a great asset not only to McDonald's, but
everyone in Monticello. The need to attract people from Interstate 94
into Monticello is a plus for all surrounding business. Every town
looks basically the same when your going 65 mph down the road. The
billboard attracts their attention to our town. Our store gets plenty
of business from the freeway with its billboard. Billboards also
give the consumer a choice. The average consumer takes about 3 minutes
to decide where to eat. Having a flashy billboard, we attract that
consumer.
Sincerely/,1
Sore Activities Representative
Monticello McDonald's
oH�«�Ps PAT'S 66
Box 26
5952 Large Avenue
Albertville, MN 55301
October 8, 1991
City of Otsego
Planning Commission
Dear Commission:
I am writing with concern regarding the proposed prohibiting of
J outdoor advertising. I believe that this would be a decision that
would only hurt the area. The billboard that we have up along
Interstate 94 has been of great value. Not only has it attracted
more business for- us, it has also brought attention to the area as
a whole.
With a community the size of Albertville or Otsego, any form of
advertising, such as billboards, which brings people to it that
would not normally know of what the community has to offer- should
be considered to be a great asset to the entire community.
Again, I am urging you NOT to prohibit outdoor advertising in this
area. The benefits of having outdoor advertising greatly outweigh
any disadvantage there may be.
Sincerely,
Pat Meyer -
Pat' s
eyerPat's 6E,
MOON MOTOR SALES, Inc.
414 South Highway 25
Box 178
J Monticello, Minn. 55362
Phone: (612) 295-2920
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HONDA & BMW MOTORCYCLES - JOHN DEERE CONSUMER PRODUCTS - STIHL & ECHO CHAIN SAWS
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17291 Highway 10
Elk River, Minnesota 55330
Reservations
1-800-251-1962
612.441-2424
Tel. ELK RIVER 441-2424
♦Showtime/ESPN
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17291 U.S. Highway 10 NW
Elk River, Minnesota 55330
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October 8, 1991
To Whom it may concern (City of Otsego):
The purpose of this letter is to ask for your consideration
regarding allowance of billboards on highway 101.
I am a business owner in the city of Elk River and am located on
Highway 10 west. I have no current way of informing people who are
traveling north that I am located on highway 10. Therefore, I am
missing out on a l ct of potential b� -4-nec�+ c P: -Ig es^
_ ... .Z�1�1�..�J.... in r7 i 3al^—.adin
order to stay in business.
Over the past year, I have brought over 60 jobs to the area, and am
contributing over $300,000 to the labor market. I have an
investment of over $1,000,000 in this area, and therefore it is
vital that I have a method of reaching potential customers. The
traffic on highway 101 is an important part of my potential
customer base, particularly during the summer months. Those people
who have found us by accident stated if we only had a sign on
highway 101, they would have stopped long ago.
Many travelers have told us they look for signs when they are
traveling to tell them where to eat, sleep, etc, however, there
is very little when it comes to the highway 101 corridor. We all
lose out on potential business. A customer may stop at my
restaurant to eat, then stop at the filling station for gas, that's
two potential purchases lost to another city.
While I understand your need to keep highway 101 looking attractive
and not be cluttered with billboards, perhaps there is a compromise
that can be reached. If you would only allow a limited number of
boards, I feel you can keep the business owners happy, and in
;;ua:iiY�a3, as ivcli as N cit- vtti 's5eaittifiii outdoors by pr2iTe:;tiny
overdevelopment of billboards.
I often talk to our management at the restaurant the importance of
a win-win resolution to problem solving. I believe there can be a
win-win outcome here as well. I thank you for your consideration.
Sincerely,
like Hoff
Owner/Operator
Hardee's Elk River
dba ..Aardee ; GA Muer, -Aoka, anJ Alexandria, Vin w.4ota
Houie Oill (Co., ftaco
17069 Highway 10 N.W.
"10/8/91
• Elk River, MN 55330
�I OCT 91991 II it
• Telephone (612)
To: City of Otesego City Council Members.
City of Otsego Planning Commission Members.
From: Charlie Houle, President, Houle Oil Co. Inc.
Re: Ordinance Proposal for Billboard Advertising.
Although my business is located in Elk River and not in Otsego,
I wanted to express my feelings on the sign ordinance that is currently
before you because I feel that it can have a major impact on local
businesses.
As with most businesses in the Elk River/Otsego area, we get most
of our customers from our local residents and also from those that drive
through our cities. Businesses need an effective and easy way to
communicate to these customers to let them know what this area has to
offer. There are many ways to advertise but not all are effective.
Billboard advertising allows us to reach both local and drive-thru
I traffic. If businesses are not allowed to communicate on billboards,
many motorists will not be aware of what we have to offer and they will
take their business to other communities.
The life blood of each and every community is the businesses of
that community. Without successful businesses we lose opportunities for
jobs, tax base and service availability. Our area businesses have worked
hard for years trying to keep people buying locally. Billboard
advertising is a necessary method for the businesses of this area.
Please draft a sign ordinance that considers the needs of the
business community. This would include standards for billboard con-
struction, appearance, maintenance and spacing. Bad looking billboards
won't help anyone so please be specific in this area.
Thank you for you consideration.
Sinc-rely,
Charles P. Houle
President
Houle Oil Co. Inc.
CPH/gab
October 8, 1991
Otsego Zoning and Planning Commission
Otsego Township
Re: Outdoor Advertising Sign Ordinance
To Whom It May Concern:
OCT ' 91991
As a client of the Franklin Sign Company, we are concerned
about the banning of outdoor advertising in the Otsego
area. We fool that outdoor advertsing done in the tasteful
manner that is display and evident with Franklin Sign, has
a two -fold purpose.
1) Outdoor advertising brings people into our Business
2) Outdoor advertising indicates a thriving Business
Community in this area
We ask for your positive consideration in supporting outdoor
advertising in the fine manner displayed with Bill -boards
such as Franklin signs indicate.
Thank you,
Paul R. Grosser
Owner
20750 ROGERS DRIVE • ROGERS, MINNESOTA 55374
OFFICE (612) 428.8636 • FAX (612) 428.4534
City of Otsego:
Planning and Zoning Commission
Otsego, Minnesota
Oct. 9, 1991
RE: Review of Sign Ordinance
Dear Sir/Madam;
The Rogers Area Chamber of Commerce is writing to encourage you to
carefully consider the options as you begin the October 9, 1991 review
of your current sign ordinance. We do not feel a total ban on bill-
boards (as suggested by sane) is a fair response to the canrnunity' s
needs. Our chamber represents many businesses in your area. These
local businesses depend on the local economy. The local econany and
job production/ retention is driven by the efforts of these same busi-
nesses. It is this interdependence that makes decisions made by local
gove=ent critical to our local area.
As you know, our local businesses compete with national companies with
far superior resources. Many of our local businesses use billboards
very effectively to pranote themselves. It is important to these busi-
nesses and to us that you weigh carefully any changes in the sign ordi-
nance. We would encourage you to make the necessary changes to improve
quality standards and work on an overall plan acceptable to local busi-
nesses and the public.
We would be happy to provide further background material and/or feed-
back from our members to help you as you make your decisions. We feel
that this issue is inportant to all concerned and we trust that you
will consider all your constituents, including local business needs, as
you work toward developing a fair and comprehensive review of the
community's needs.
Since �y,
Il
E. Kle
ogers Area
, VP
of Commerce
CC: Chamber Government Ccnmittee
OTSE DLT
October 9, 1991
City of Otsego
13474 NE 95th St.
Otsego, MN 55330
Re: Outdoor Advertising
To Whom It May Concern:
It is my personal belief that outdoor advertising is appropriate and good for
a community, however, proper restrictions must be in place so that all parties
conform to a comprehensive plan. An example of this is the use of all steel struc-
tures versus wood.
The reason for my letter is to let you know that we use outdoor advertising for
our business. We have found it to be an effective way to promote our business.
With the proper regulations, it can also be attractive. Hopefully, the firms that
do this work are community involved and put back some of the profits into the
community they are doing business in.
If all these things are in place, then outdoor advertising is an acceptable method
of promoting your community and the business in and around your community.
Sincerely,
K.C. Foster
K C : s g
MINNEAPOLIS TRAILER SALES, INC.
"Our Service Built Our Business"
14490 Northdale Blvd. * Rogers, Minnesota 55374 • One Mile North of I-94 on Hwy. 101
(612) 428-2201
October
8,
1991
I� . 9 1991
Ll
TO WHOM
IT
MAY CONCERN:
We at Minneapolis Trailer Sales have leased a billboard
advertisement from Franklin Outdoor Advertising for the
past three years.0ur sign is located on I-94 near Albertville.
Tracking our customer leads has demonstrated that outdoor
advertising is an effective form for our business. We can
attribute increased lot traffic and sales directly to our
sign on I-94. Buyers have come from as far away as North
Dakota.
Since many of the outdoor signs in the Albertville area are
for local merchants, these signs serve to expand a business
market and bring in sales to our local area that would not
be attracted through other advertising medium.
Keith Ko`rnovich
Sales Manager
October 9, 1991
City of Otsego
City Council &•Planning Commission
13474 N.E. 95th
Otsego, MN 55330
Dear Council & Planning Commission Members:
The mission of the Elk liver Area Chamber of Commerce is to serve the
community by meeting th(,- needs and expectations of the businesses and
residents of the Greater, Elk River Area.
It is the position of tl�o Elk River Area Chamber of Commerce to
promote the growth and ielfare of the business community.
In that respect, we would encourage the City of Otsego to be
sensitive to the needs of business relying on outdoor signage to
communicate their servi,.es. We also respect the need to be sensitive
and respectful of the e!ivironment. we do not feel these objectives
are mutually exclusive.
in is our hope the City of Otsego would draft an ordinance that
considers the important: of business vitality to the growth and
prosperity of the area.
Sincerely,
4U'JZL1L4 a - a4l�
Edward A. Cunnington
President
EAC: is
Post -It'" brand tax transmittal memo 76711 M of pages P-
720
729 Main Street • Elk A. ver, Minnesota 55330
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SKOGLUND COMMUNICATIONS, INC.
2625 CLEARWATER ROAD, P.O. BOX 865
ST. CLOUD, MN 56302-0865
(612) 253-3000
(800) 777-4896
July 1, 1991
Ms. Elaine Beatty
City of Otsego
13474 N.E. 95th St.
Otsego, MN 55330
Dear Elaine:
Thank you for allowing me to submit recommendations to the board which will be
developing a sign ordinance for the city of Otsego. One of your city retailers has
asked Skoglund for advertising help because of a large drop in business he
experienced after being required to remove his billboard sign. The only way we
can help Otsego merchants is if you draft an ordinance which is liberal enough to
allow off premise advertising signs to be placed in strategic locations and can
easily be read.
So you can have complete control of any sign applications, I would suggest a
conditional use process whereby each application can be judged on its own merits.
I hope you will not pattern your sign ordinance after the Wright County ordinance.
Of all the counties I work throughout Minnesota and Wisconsin, I find Wright
County's sign ordinance the most restrictive and biased against outdoor
advertising. Let me cite you some examples:
1. "No advertising signs shall be permitted within 200 feet from the
center line of a road." A sign is meant to be easily read. With the large
14' x 48' highway signs, the problem isn't as acute, but with the industry
standard size 12 x 24 foot poster panel, placing a sign that far from the road
is hard to read and not doing the advertiser justice. The Minnesota
Department of Transportation allows billboard signs placed adjacent to the
highway right-of-way. Asking for a setback of another 125 to 150 feet is
not justified.
Offices in: Duluth, MN • Minneapolis, MN • St. Cloud, MN • Eau Claire, WI
SKOGI_UND CONAMUNICATIONS, INC.
2. "Advertising structures shall not exceed twenty feet in height
above average grade." At this height, a 12 foot sign places the
catwalk at about 6 feet above the ground. The low height makes it
easier for teenagers to climb on the catwalk, writing graffiti, defacing
the sign, and possible injuries from jumping or falling. A higher sign
height also allows for better visibility of the ground area behind the
sign. Most cities restrict the billboard height at 30 to 40 feet.
3. "No advertising sign shall be closer than 100 feet of any
abutting property line. " If a two story building is erected, most cities
allow placement ten to fifteen feet from a property line. Why should
an advertising structure be treated differently? Most cities have side
yard setbacks for signs comparable to buildings.
.4. "No advertising sign shall be located within 300 feet of a
dwelling." I don't understand why a sign within 300 feet from a
building is prohibited. We have many signs placed three feet from a
building. If a property owner has no problem with a sign anywhere
near his building why should there be a restriction?
5. "No advertising sign shall be located within 300 feet of an at
grade intersection of two or more roads." The Minnesota Department
of Transportation has no minimum requirement for signs near
intersections within incorporated city limits. I feel each sign permit
application should be judged separately depending on the
circumstances. If a sign 30 feet high, placed 100 feet from an
intersection doesn't create a traffic hazard after inspection by your
chief of police, then I feel it should be allowed.
6. "No advertising sign shall be located within a radius of 660 feet
of any existing advertising sign. " If you want spacing at that
distance, I would suggest that you specify "on the same side of the
highway facing traffic proceeding in the same direction". The
Department of Transportation allows 100 foot spacing on primary
highways inside an incorporated city, 300 feet outside a city and 500
feet on fully controlled freeways or an interstate highway on the same
side of the highway.
SKOGLUND COMMUNICATIONS, INC.
With this letter, I am hereby submitting my application to erect two 12 x 24 foot
back to back, off premise advertising signs for my client, Clem Darkenwald of
Clem's Fish and Seafood, Highway 101 South. The signs would be placed on an
attractive steel single pole painted earth tone brown. Both structures would be
placed on property owned by Mr. Darkenwald. The enclosed sign leases outline
the exact location of the proposed signs.
I am also enclosing a copy of the sign ordinance from the city of Alexandria.
They have a very detailed ordinance which might be helpful in giving you ideas
for Otsego.
Thank you for allowing me to submit my recommendation and to attend the
upcoming Planning and Zoning meeting. Please call me at (800) 777-4896 and let
me know when the date and time of the meeting has been scheduled.
Sincerely,
Richard Mlodzik
Real Estate Department
RM:mf
Enclosure
cc: Clem Darkenwald