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10-09-91 Planning Commission MINCITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 10/9/91 AT 8PM - PAGE 1 - The meeting was called to order at 8:05PM by Chairman Ing Roskaft. Members present: CARL SWENSON LARRY FOURNIER ING ROSKAFT KATHY LEWIS MARK WALLACE BRUCE RASK JIM KOLLES The follwing staff was present: JUDY HUDSON DAVE LICHT ELAINE BEATTY The following Council Members were present: NORMAN F FRESKE FLOYD RODEN RONALD G BLACK The first item on the Agenda was the consideration of the minutes of Planning Commission Minutes of 10/2/91. Larry Fournier motioned to adopt the minutes of October 2, 1991. Kathy Lewis seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously. The meeting was then turned over to David Licht who stated that tonight's meeting was set up in direct response to Keith Franklin and his concern with the Camp Plan. The Council and Planning Commission was very interested in prior to their getting into a discussion of the sign ordinance for the City that any interested parties by able to speak. The interested parties were given a copy of the proposed ordinance. The concept is once there comments are received their factors will be taken into account and weighed. They anticipate there will be an informational meeting held first and then after changes are made the proper hearing will be held after that. Licht turned the meeting back to Roskaft. Roskaft then allow Keith Franklin to speak, who was on the agenda and told everyone he would allow ten to fifteen minutes each for presentation. Franklin of Franklin Outdoor Advertising Company addressed the Commission and Licht and talked about the Sign Ordinance. He said they do want control, but want to stress the businesses in the community are not the ones asking for this. They look to other industry to control it. He said the City down the road advertises for the other Cities down the road. He said the businesses that are to come are going to ask for signage. He turned it over to Mr James Klint from Franklin Outdoor Advertising Co who spoke about planning and signs, proper spacing, locating in Commercial/Industrial areas and foresight to set regulations. He talked about the business expo sign they donated to Elk River Chamber of Commerce. He spoke about tourism and asked the Commission to take a look at their background. Klint asked them to talk to the Chamber of Commerce in Elk River/Rogers/St Cloud and asked them to look at structure on 101 (monopole structure). He talked about the broad prospective of outdoor advertising and said give him a call and ask for input, he said he has been in existence in business for 11 years. Clem Darkenwald was next to speak and thanked the CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 10/9/91 AT 8PM - PAGE 2 - Planning Commission for giving him a chance to speak. He wants to see two billboards, one south of 42 and one north of 42 on #101. He showed a picture of his billboard on the right side of #10 going north and said it is not very effective because you have to go S to get to his place. He is asking for a single sign double faced and showed a Morries Fish and Seafood Sign picture which is near Brainerd, Mn. He said attractive signs create a business type climate which is good for the City. Also he said his trailer with the sign on it worked for him. A lot of people came in and said they didn't know he was there. He said he needs s billboard very bad because sales are down and he has been working with Skoglund Communications, Inc in St Cloud. He left information from Skoglund which will be copied for the Planning Commission and Council. Skoglund was unable to attend the meeting tonight said Darkenwald. Wally O'Dell works for Darkenwald's and he said John and Gil Darkenwald both have experience in the Industrial and Commercial areas. He said he was pleased to hear Dave Licht's statement that the proposed Zoning Ordinance has not been worked on yet. He said that Elk River/Otsego/Albertville/Rogers/Maple Grove/Eden Prairie, and more are some of the communities they have worked in. He stated he would clarify this ordinance as anti -business and the Planning Commission needs to decide if they want businesses and it behoves Otsego to put themselves in a posture that they welcome businesses. He urged the Planning Commission to look at Elk River's ordinance and suggested they look at some other Ordinances in other communities. Let's make our ordinance fit your goals he stated. Gil Darkenwald said he is in favor of the sign ordinance and thinks every company needs them. 4x8 real estate signs were used by him and were very effective when he started his business. He said signs and businesses are partners. A good sign well done, with imagination is a salesman twenty-four hours a day for a small business. He suggested the Planning Commission not be too restrictive on sign ordinances. He thinks we should be flexible. John Darkenwald said that they are negotiating on two deals on commercial land and they are going on two to three acre parcels. When you consider their sign ordinance these companies have minimums and signage is very important to these people. Please be at least as competitive as your neighbors. It's important said John. Licht said the ordinance as it is drafted is reflective of some of the ideas of the Planning Commission and Council. Licht stated it is reflective of developing communities, like Lakeville, and Maple Grove. It is highly reflective of Frankfort Township's Ordinance which was adopted a year ago. He said this is part of the Zoning Ordinance and the CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 10/9/91 AT 8PM - PAGE 3 - Subdivision Ordinance has been processed and is in place. the next aspect of the ordinance we will process is the districts. After we have gotten thru the districts we will get back to the sign ordinances. The whole intent is to get this information up front. Licht agreed that you have to be competitive and look at other sign ordinances. He said Franklin Outdoor Advertising could provide different sign standards if there are examples available and they can review them. As we are doing the districts we should let people know what we are doing so they can have input. Clem Darkenwald asked if this is the proper time to address the sign Ordinance. Licht said we need to first get districts established and will notify Clem when we get to it. Gil Darkenwald asked if the Zoning and Comp Plan is established? Licht answered not yet. We have districts and they will be put together. Gil asked if coming in for a special use permit is advisable now? Licht answered yes you can go ahead now. Fournier said the comments he heard will help him with his input into the Sign Ordinance. No further work on the Zoning Ordinance was done. Fournier asked how the Planning Commission want to handle their Site Inspections? He said the Council supported the Planning Commission to have Site Inspections and be reimbursed. Members felt it should be done at one time and Elaine Beatty should give the Planning Commission a list of upcoming Hearings. Poskaft suggested meeting on Saturday morning at a specified date and time. Lewis stated she preferred a week day. During the week would be better than a weekend. Wallace said evening would work out well because we could hit all of them in one shot. The middle of the week would be easier. Fournier agreed. Both agreed with Lewis. Swenson said that Wednesday, a regular Planning Commission meeting day may be good. Lewis said maybe meeting at four or five o'clock on Wednesday for November 6TH items. Licht said this is unusual to get these items this far ahead and whenever you set your inspections NAC will try to get the reports to you ahead of the Site Inspection. It was stated that their may have to be two Site Inspections in a month Lewis suggested Wednesday, October 16th at 5PM to make the inspections and stay for the Planning Commission Meeting. Kolles said he prefers 4PM time. Wallace motioned to meet in the City Hall at 4PM for Site Inspection on 10/16/91. Lewis seconded the motion. Fournier said that maybe we could make it more permanent saying the lst and 2nd Wednesday of the month at 4PM if needed. CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 10-9-91 AT 8PM - PAGE 4 - Swenson asked how much time can we be given ahead of Site Inspection date? Licht said we try to have the information to Elaine by Thursday so it can get out by Friday before the Planning Commission Hearing. We have fifteen working days to get the report out. Motion carried unanimously. Roskaft said it is understood if this doesn't work out we can change it. Licht said we do not have any more material and he will have it to us next week or in advance of that. Animals and Zoning Districts will be looked at next meeting 10/23/91. Licht said the Shoreland and Wild and Scenic information will not be available yet. Licht talked about accessory buildings have not been agreed to as yet and there are other loose ends. NAC needs direction on this. Licht said he has a list of all the issues that their is a lack of agreement on and maybe it is best to bring them back when we have total package. Swenson said we should go on with the ordinances and come back to pick up loose ends. We probably will get ordinances for next meeting by Friday so you will have it by Saturday. Fournier said he would like Licht to talk about the changes in the Comprehensive Plan. Licht went over the changes with the Planning Commission. Roskaft asked about the contract on the Planned Unit Development for Riverwood Conference Center and the Planning Commission wants to see the finished product. Licht said they will be furnished with copies of the •Final product when the Council approves. Licht explained to the Commission where they are with it at present. Swenson motioned to adjourn the meeting. Wallace seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously. w NOLLES SEr A r By Elaine Beatty Recording Secretary eb 7 DLT. / `% r 91991 .1 J h�� &,-� clser.i 3ovT HiG1-4t,� I 73/'U-T3L' Ao � 77� 1/�5�113iZijL, le4S ,�c�-Z� LZy "r3 y �- y 0 &,-� clser.i 3ovT HiG1-4t,� I 73/'U-T3L' Ao � 77� 1/�5�113iZijL, le4S ,�c�-Z� LZy MCDonaldS 0 Oct. 8, 1991 To Whom It May Concern: McDonald's of Monticello 100 Oakwood Drive P.O. Box 848 Monticello, Minnesota 55362 612/295-5140 The billboards on 94 are a great asset not only to McDonald's, but everyone in Monticello. The need to attract people from Interstate 94 into Monticello is a plus for all surrounding business. Every town looks basically the same when your going 65 mph down the road. The billboard attracts their attention to our town. Our store gets plenty of business from the freeway with its billboard. Billboards also give the consumer a choice. The average consumer takes about 3 minutes to decide where to eat. Having a flashy billboard, we attract that consumer. Sincerely/,1 Sore Activities Representative Monticello McDonald's oH�«�Ps PAT'S 66 Box 26 5952 Large Avenue Albertville, MN 55301 October 8, 1991 City of Otsego Planning Commission Dear Commission: I am writing with concern regarding the proposed prohibiting of J outdoor advertising. I believe that this would be a decision that would only hurt the area. The billboard that we have up along Interstate 94 has been of great value. Not only has it attracted more business for- us, it has also brought attention to the area as a whole. With a community the size of Albertville or Otsego, any form of advertising, such as billboards, which brings people to it that would not normally know of what the community has to offer- should be considered to be a great asset to the entire community. Again, I am urging you NOT to prohibit outdoor advertising in this area. The benefits of having outdoor advertising greatly outweigh any disadvantage there may be. Sincerely, Pat Meyer - Pat' s eyerPat's 6E, MOON MOTOR SALES, Inc. 414 South Highway 25 Box 178 J Monticello, Minn. 55362 Phone: (612) 295-2920 -91991, 9i_ /Al AGyri HONDA & BMW MOTORCYCLES - JOHN DEERE CONSUMER PRODUCTS - STIHL & ECHO CHAIN SAWS � o 17291 Highway 10 Elk River, Minnesota 55330 Reservations 1-800-251-1962 612.441-2424 Tel. ELK RIVER 441-2424 ♦Showtime/ESPN *Restaurant ♦Pool ase eMotel ♦Free Cont, Breakfast F`,�/ e ! ; � — Kusum Shah `� I (�(, ! 91991 Manager ; I i A Nice Place 17291 U.S. Highway 10 NW Elk River, Minnesota 55330 �1ocem� Q Ci �r�1� ��U',ees— 5� r To Q to'e C) LOM 5 raYA ce � 1� 927 10 Jd rLenjee of -,#"e 3 _%od/ System OCT -91991 G /Muer, V. 55330 u j 612) 241-0500 October 8, 1991 To Whom it may concern (City of Otsego): The purpose of this letter is to ask for your consideration regarding allowance of billboards on highway 101. I am a business owner in the city of Elk River and am located on Highway 10 west. I have no current way of informing people who are traveling north that I am located on highway 10. Therefore, I am missing out on a l ct of potential b� -4-nec�+ c P: -Ig es^ _ ... .Z�1�1�..�J.... in r7 i 3al^—.adin order to stay in business. Over the past year, I have brought over 60 jobs to the area, and am contributing over $300,000 to the labor market. I have an investment of over $1,000,000 in this area, and therefore it is vital that I have a method of reaching potential customers. The traffic on highway 101 is an important part of my potential customer base, particularly during the summer months. Those people who have found us by accident stated if we only had a sign on highway 101, they would have stopped long ago. Many travelers have told us they look for signs when they are traveling to tell them where to eat, sleep, etc, however, there is very little when it comes to the highway 101 corridor. We all lose out on potential business. A customer may stop at my restaurant to eat, then stop at the filling station for gas, that's two potential purchases lost to another city. While I understand your need to keep highway 101 looking attractive and not be cluttered with billboards, perhaps there is a compromise that can be reached. If you would only allow a limited number of boards, I feel you can keep the business owners happy, and in ;;ua:iiY�a3, as ivcli as N cit- vtti 's5eaittifiii outdoors by pr2iTe:;tiny overdevelopment of billboards. I often talk to our management at the restaurant the importance of a win-win resolution to problem solving. I believe there can be a win-win outcome here as well. I thank you for your consideration. Sincerely, like Hoff Owner/Operator Hardee's Elk River dba ..Aardee ; GA Muer, -Aoka, anJ Alexandria, Vin w.4ota Houie Oill (Co., ftaco 17069 Highway 10 N.W. "10/8/91 • Elk River, MN 55330 �I OCT 91991 II it • Telephone (612) To: City of Otesego City Council Members. City of Otsego Planning Commission Members. From: Charlie Houle, President, Houle Oil Co. Inc. Re: Ordinance Proposal for Billboard Advertising. Although my business is located in Elk River and not in Otsego, I wanted to express my feelings on the sign ordinance that is currently before you because I feel that it can have a major impact on local businesses. As with most businesses in the Elk River/Otsego area, we get most of our customers from our local residents and also from those that drive through our cities. Businesses need an effective and easy way to communicate to these customers to let them know what this area has to offer. There are many ways to advertise but not all are effective. Billboard advertising allows us to reach both local and drive-thru I traffic. If businesses are not allowed to communicate on billboards, many motorists will not be aware of what we have to offer and they will take their business to other communities. The life blood of each and every community is the businesses of that community. Without successful businesses we lose opportunities for jobs, tax base and service availability. Our area businesses have worked hard for years trying to keep people buying locally. Billboard advertising is a necessary method for the businesses of this area. Please draft a sign ordinance that considers the needs of the business community. This would include standards for billboard con- struction, appearance, maintenance and spacing. Bad looking billboards won't help anyone so please be specific in this area. Thank you for you consideration. Sinc-rely, Charles P. Houle President Houle Oil Co. Inc. CPH/gab October 8, 1991 Otsego Zoning and Planning Commission Otsego Township Re: Outdoor Advertising Sign Ordinance To Whom It May Concern: OCT ' 91991 As a client of the Franklin Sign Company, we are concerned about the banning of outdoor advertising in the Otsego area. We fool that outdoor advertsing done in the tasteful manner that is display and evident with Franklin Sign, has a two -fold purpose. 1) Outdoor advertising brings people into our Business 2) Outdoor advertising indicates a thriving Business Community in this area We ask for your positive consideration in supporting outdoor advertising in the fine manner displayed with Bill -boards such as Franklin signs indicate. Thank you, Paul R. Grosser Owner 20750 ROGERS DRIVE • ROGERS, MINNESOTA 55374 OFFICE (612) 428.8636 • FAX (612) 428.4534 City of Otsego: Planning and Zoning Commission Otsego, Minnesota Oct. 9, 1991 RE: Review of Sign Ordinance Dear Sir/Madam; The Rogers Area Chamber of Commerce is writing to encourage you to carefully consider the options as you begin the October 9, 1991 review of your current sign ordinance. We do not feel a total ban on bill- boards (as suggested by sane) is a fair response to the canrnunity' s needs. Our chamber represents many businesses in your area. These local businesses depend on the local economy. The local econany and job production/ retention is driven by the efforts of these same busi- nesses. It is this interdependence that makes decisions made by local gove=ent critical to our local area. As you know, our local businesses compete with national companies with far superior resources. Many of our local businesses use billboards very effectively to pranote themselves. It is important to these busi- nesses and to us that you weigh carefully any changes in the sign ordi- nance. We would encourage you to make the necessary changes to improve quality standards and work on an overall plan acceptable to local busi- nesses and the public. We would be happy to provide further background material and/or feed- back from our members to help you as you make your decisions. We feel that this issue is inportant to all concerned and we trust that you will consider all your constituents, including local business needs, as you work toward developing a fair and comprehensive review of the community's needs. Since �y, Il E. Kle ogers Area , VP of Commerce CC: Chamber Government Ccnmittee OTSE DLT October 9, 1991 City of Otsego 13474 NE 95th St. Otsego, MN 55330 Re: Outdoor Advertising To Whom It May Concern: It is my personal belief that outdoor advertising is appropriate and good for a community, however, proper restrictions must be in place so that all parties conform to a comprehensive plan. An example of this is the use of all steel struc- tures versus wood. The reason for my letter is to let you know that we use outdoor advertising for our business. We have found it to be an effective way to promote our business. With the proper regulations, it can also be attractive. Hopefully, the firms that do this work are community involved and put back some of the profits into the community they are doing business in. If all these things are in place, then outdoor advertising is an acceptable method of promoting your community and the business in and around your community. Sincerely, K.C. Foster K C : s g MINNEAPOLIS TRAILER SALES, INC. "Our Service Built Our Business" 14490 Northdale Blvd. * Rogers, Minnesota 55374 • One Mile North of I-94 on Hwy. 101 (612) 428-2201 October 8, 1991 I� . 9 1991 Ll TO WHOM IT MAY CONCERN: We at Minneapolis Trailer Sales have leased a billboard advertisement from Franklin Outdoor Advertising for the past three years.0ur sign is located on I-94 near Albertville. Tracking our customer leads has demonstrated that outdoor advertising is an effective form for our business. We can attribute increased lot traffic and sales directly to our sign on I-94. Buyers have come from as far away as North Dakota. Since many of the outdoor signs in the Albertville area are for local merchants, these signs serve to expand a business market and bring in sales to our local area that would not be attracted through other advertising medium. Keith Ko`rnovich Sales Manager October 9, 1991 City of Otsego City Council &•Planning Commission 13474 N.E. 95th Otsego, MN 55330 Dear Council & Planning Commission Members: The mission of the Elk liver Area Chamber of Commerce is to serve the community by meeting th(,- needs and expectations of the businesses and residents of the Greater, Elk River Area. It is the position of tl�o Elk River Area Chamber of Commerce to promote the growth and ielfare of the business community. In that respect, we would encourage the City of Otsego to be sensitive to the needs of business relying on outdoor signage to communicate their servi,.es. We also respect the need to be sensitive and respectful of the e!ivironment. we do not feel these objectives are mutually exclusive. in is our hope the City of Otsego would draft an ordinance that considers the important: of business vitality to the growth and prosperity of the area. Sincerely, 4U'JZL1L4 a - a4l� Edward A. Cunnington President EAC: is Post -It'" brand tax transmittal memo 76711 M of pages P- 720 729 Main Street • Elk A. ver, Minnesota 55330 °*p`' r / 1/ Phone" 7 "Bt ilding A Better Comm Fax r / _ ,' _ r -Ox e � L11 0 1 P SKOGLUND COMMUNICATIONS, INC. 2625 CLEARWATER ROAD, P.O. BOX 865 ST. CLOUD, MN 56302-0865 (612) 253-3000 (800) 777-4896 July 1, 1991 Ms. Elaine Beatty City of Otsego 13474 N.E. 95th St. Otsego, MN 55330 Dear Elaine: Thank you for allowing me to submit recommendations to the board which will be developing a sign ordinance for the city of Otsego. One of your city retailers has asked Skoglund for advertising help because of a large drop in business he experienced after being required to remove his billboard sign. The only way we can help Otsego merchants is if you draft an ordinance which is liberal enough to allow off premise advertising signs to be placed in strategic locations and can easily be read. So you can have complete control of any sign applications, I would suggest a conditional use process whereby each application can be judged on its own merits. I hope you will not pattern your sign ordinance after the Wright County ordinance. Of all the counties I work throughout Minnesota and Wisconsin, I find Wright County's sign ordinance the most restrictive and biased against outdoor advertising. Let me cite you some examples: 1. "No advertising signs shall be permitted within 200 feet from the center line of a road." A sign is meant to be easily read. With the large 14' x 48' highway signs, the problem isn't as acute, but with the industry standard size 12 x 24 foot poster panel, placing a sign that far from the road is hard to read and not doing the advertiser justice. The Minnesota Department of Transportation allows billboard signs placed adjacent to the highway right-of-way. Asking for a setback of another 125 to 150 feet is not justified. Offices in: Duluth, MN • Minneapolis, MN • St. Cloud, MN • Eau Claire, WI SKOGI_UND CONAMUNICATIONS, INC. 2. "Advertising structures shall not exceed twenty feet in height above average grade." At this height, a 12 foot sign places the catwalk at about 6 feet above the ground. The low height makes it easier for teenagers to climb on the catwalk, writing graffiti, defacing the sign, and possible injuries from jumping or falling. A higher sign height also allows for better visibility of the ground area behind the sign. Most cities restrict the billboard height at 30 to 40 feet. 3. "No advertising sign shall be closer than 100 feet of any abutting property line. " If a two story building is erected, most cities allow placement ten to fifteen feet from a property line. Why should an advertising structure be treated differently? Most cities have side yard setbacks for signs comparable to buildings. .4. "No advertising sign shall be located within 300 feet of a dwelling." I don't understand why a sign within 300 feet from a building is prohibited. We have many signs placed three feet from a building. If a property owner has no problem with a sign anywhere near his building why should there be a restriction? 5. "No advertising sign shall be located within 300 feet of an at grade intersection of two or more roads." The Minnesota Department of Transportation has no minimum requirement for signs near intersections within incorporated city limits. I feel each sign permit application should be judged separately depending on the circumstances. If a sign 30 feet high, placed 100 feet from an intersection doesn't create a traffic hazard after inspection by your chief of police, then I feel it should be allowed. 6. "No advertising sign shall be located within a radius of 660 feet of any existing advertising sign. " If you want spacing at that distance, I would suggest that you specify "on the same side of the highway facing traffic proceeding in the same direction". The Department of Transportation allows 100 foot spacing on primary highways inside an incorporated city, 300 feet outside a city and 500 feet on fully controlled freeways or an interstate highway on the same side of the highway. SKOGLUND COMMUNICATIONS, INC. With this letter, I am hereby submitting my application to erect two 12 x 24 foot back to back, off premise advertising signs for my client, Clem Darkenwald of Clem's Fish and Seafood, Highway 101 South. The signs would be placed on an attractive steel single pole painted earth tone brown. Both structures would be placed on property owned by Mr. Darkenwald. The enclosed sign leases outline the exact location of the proposed signs. I am also enclosing a copy of the sign ordinance from the city of Alexandria. They have a very detailed ordinance which might be helpful in giving you ideas for Otsego. Thank you for allowing me to submit my recommendation and to attend the upcoming Planning and Zoning meeting. Please call me at (800) 777-4896 and let me know when the date and time of the meeting has been scheduled. Sincerely, Richard Mlodzik Real Estate Department RM:mf Enclosure cc: Clem Darkenwald