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05-21-1990 Special Meeting MinutesSTATE OF MN A meeting was held this 21 COUNTY OF WRIGHT day of May, 1990 at 7:30 TOWN OF OTSEGO PM (prior to the regular Town Board Meeting scheduled for 8:00 PM) at the request of Township Mario Giordano to discuss the proposed building of a new Town Hall. Norman Froske, Chairman, Douglas Lindenfelser and Floyd Roden, Supervisors, Elaine Beatty, Deputy Clerk, Jerome Perrault, Clerk, Dave Licht, Planner, Bill Radzwill, Attorney, and Larry Koshak, Engineer were present. The meeting was called to order by Chairman Norman Freske, Mario Giordano stated that he wanted the Board to know that he did not think the Township was going in the right direction that the new Town Hall should not be built on the present site as it would not meet the needs required for the future growth of the Township. He also said he was a firm believer in that things should be done according to law and he did not feel the Board was doing this. Attorney Bill Radzwill said he feels the Board has followed the law as much as possible and has been very open about everything they have done. If he (Mr. Giordano) wishes to charge the Board with any wrong doing, he should state exactly what he is charging them with and not in just generalities. Steve Palmer said he thought the Board was getting ahead of itself by hiring an Architect before knowing for sure if they were going to build the new Town Hall. Attorney Bill Radzwill replied that because we are a Township, we are required by law to hire an Architect, have prelimary plans drawn up and cost estimates prepared before making a final decision on whether to build or not. Gene Krueser said that he was asked to serve on the Building Committee for the new Town Hall but had declined to serve and was disappointed that his name was still on the, list. Elaine Beatty said his name had been removed and was not on the revised list. It was just a case of copies being made of the wrong list. Mario Giordano complained that he did not like the way "Clean Up Day" was handled and there was too much trash left around. Elaine Beatty replied that because the response was so great and so much material was brought in it was taking some time to remove all of it. The Board arranged the "Clean Up Day" to improve the Township. Russell Voight said he thought the Board should sit back and take a look at what your needs will be in the future such as what are you going to do for facilites for a Fire Department. Gene Krueser said he feels we should do a complete study of our future needs before a decision is made on building a new Town Hall. Mario Giordano asked Engineer Larry Koshak where he thought the new Town Hall should be built. Larry Koshak said 1-rn 1.1r1 tint STATE OF MN COUNTY OF WRIGHT TOWN OF OTSEGO THE 7:30 PM MEETING OF MAY 21, 1990 Page 2 - been asked to nor had he commented on the choice of a site. Gene Krueser asked the Board if they would put a Garbage Dumpster on the river landing by Nashua Ave. The Board replied they had tried having a Garbage DumpsLer on the river landing by Kadler Ave. but it was misused by the public in that some were bringing all their garbage to the Dempster Chairman Norman Freske reminded the residents that it was now time for the scheduled Town Board Meeting to convene. On motion the preliminary meeting adjourned. , Norman Freske, Chairman Dou Lindenfelser, Supervisor , Floycl Roden, Supervisor Attest: Jerome Perrault, Clerk PRE -TOWN BOARD MEETING AT 7:30 PRESENT: Jerome Perrault Jim Barthel Floyd Roden Larry Koshak Elaine Beatty - WITH MARIO GIORDANO 5/21/90 Doug Lindenfelser Norm Freske Bill Radzwill Dave Licht Also present wer oa number of Otsego Residents with whom Mario had talked,,\about the Town Hall Site. Norm Freske, Chairman called the meeting to order and asked Mario Giordano to start the meeting. Note: Other persons present - Ing Roskaft, Gene Kreuser, Paula Giordano, Herb Peck, Sarah Connett, Bill Connett, Steve Hollmer, Russ Voight, Bonnie Shirts, Judy Hudson,(and others) Mario Giordano said that one of the Board members, he didn't know which one it was told an old lady here that if she didn't have enough money for taxes she can sell the other lot next door. You were not gentlemen, you were extra rude, so I'm telling you here I am and I told you guys some things and we probably got at each others throats. As time went by and watching you guys operate in here at this table here, so the reason I wanted this meeting here is to let you know that things are not going in the right direction. I know you hired an Attorney. We talked about that. I know you hired a Planner. You are going to be a city of great development here. Great things are going to happen. The City progress has got to be designed and that's why the Attorney has to be here and a good design was supposed to be planned. That's why the City planner was supposed to be here. The City Engineer is asking for the plans. It seems to me a lot of things have been happening. It looks like to accomodate some peoples needs. Well, the old saying goes...I didn't have anything against any of you personally, because I really.. I don't know you guys and I not only don't think that us getting into a personal dislike of each other will accomplish anything, but I am a firm believer that the law must be maintained, no matter if you got a City Council, or any part of City Government. So, I went and consulted a series of peple about how things were getting done around here. It was not correct. So you, will probably have a visit from a series of Public Agencies to visit you. As a matter of fact, if they discover something, I don't know, I would like to see an investigation actually of the Board. BILL RADZWILL: Now, can 1 interrupt right now? Are you talking about criminal investigation, or what? What are you talking about? This is the strangest conversation I've listened to. MARIO: That's right Meeting of 5/21/90 -Page 2 - BILL: If you're going to make a charge, make a charge. You follow me? I really don't want to just let this go endlessly. If that's the kind of thing you're going to do. Make a charge if there's a charge and let's get to it, but somehow... NORM FRESKE: Sir, This is a meeting and we are going to run it governmentally. You come in here every day.. I'll go back to one thing to the statement 1 was going to make. We will listen to anybody. We always have. We listened to you two years ago. You came in here...Now, let me finish...Two years you came in here, you bitched for two hour. .or one hour. We cut you off. Six months ago, or three months ago, you came in and said you guys are doing a great job. You said you guys are doing perfect. I stood here for one hour... Let me finish...You came out and said you guys are doing a great job. Now, hey, we are learning as far as planning. We are trying to do the best we can. That's why we hired help. We will listen to you. We will listen to everybody, but you came in here..this is a business.. you come in here for two hours, take the gals time up. You just walk in anytime you want. It is open to the public, but remember if you do want two hours of her time, you have to have an appointment. We do have other business to run. You just cannot walk in. I, me, anybody can't just walk in. I don't walk in at the County, or the State. It's open to the public. Records, I'm not denying it, but the point is you just can't say hey, I want this, this and this. They have a , lot of things. They have deadlines to meet. So let's get things straight and lets run this as a meeting first. Now go ahead. BILL RADZWILL: You know I've heard a lot of rumors of things that you are concerned about and that's fine and dandy. This Board has been open to the public and has had all kinds of meetings and all kinds of input, and I guess one of the things you are concerned about is the building of the new Town. Hall. The Statutes of this State you say we have not complied with. Do you know what they are? Have you read it? MARIO: Yes I did. BILL: And, what percentage of the vote do you have to have to change the site of a Town Hall? Do you know? MARIO: Let me tell you - BILL: No, don't tell me. You follow me? I don't think you know. The whole problem is that you can't change the site without two-thirds of the vote of the public. You follow me? And somebody has to, from the public, put it on the ballot and nobody has. You follow me? What was on the ballot was...not the ballot, but at the Annual Meeting was the issue of actually building it. It was voted upon by Meeting of 5/21/90 Page 3 the people to do such a thing. Al]. of a sudden you are saying you don't like those votes. The issue is, attend the Annual Meeting. That's how Township Governments are run. That's how they are run and all of a sudden we find out that you may not like how they are doing it, but I'll tell you right now, they are doing it under the laws of the State of Minnesota. MARIO: I got a group of Attorneys. BILL: That's right, and unless they practice Municipal Law...If you've got a group of attorneys who have never read the statutes, you had better b careful what you. say. OK..You had better find out from those folks that know what the law is and practice the law in this particular area, and I don't want to see this Town Board accused of not following the statutes. They follow the statutes very religiously. Once in a while we do make a mistake, but we generally back up if we do, and a lot of times it's inadvertant and we don't know that all of a sudden there is another fact situation out there. We try to follow the statutes the best we can. If somebody wants to change the polling place you have to do it at the Annual Meeting and that was not done. What was done at the Annual Meeting was to confirm that they are going to keep it at this place and they are going to build a new Town Hall. You may not like it, but the rest of the people may like it. This is a Democracy and when you make those statements you had better find out what the statutes are. We are not trying to outdo anybody. This Town, has been very, very open on this issue. They have a Building Committee. They have enough people out there. MARIO: I have enough people that didn't know what the hell was going on until last Thursday. NORM: Sir, one thing, all the people are more than welcome here, but you also made a committment. You lied to Elaine. You told her you wanted to come to the Board at 7:30. You wanted to meet one on one and discuss this. I'll be honest we are going to meet with the people anyway. We want to meet with the people, but you wanted to meet one on one. So tonight you got everybody else all stirred up, and hat's fine, they can be here, but at five minutes to eight, or ten to eight, we have to cut it off, because we have another meeting. OK, go ahead. HERB PECK: Has there been a feasibility study conducted on this project? NORM: We are in the process of doing it all right now. The reason we didn't have a meeting with all the people yet is 1 Meeting of 5/21/90 - Page 4 - don't want to go before all the people here and say we're going to build a Hall and they say what are you going to build and we don't know. It looks kind of stupid. We are trying to get all the facts on what we plan on doing and then get them in and let them know. If the DNR says we can't build, we won't build. I mean, we are not completley...Ah.. HERB PECK: That was the question I had. The only question I had. NORM: We are having a perk test done. I don't know yet. Maybe we can't build. OK that's it. Yes sir. STEVE HOLLMER: Is it normal to spend the money for an Architect before hand? NORM: We haven't spent a penny yet on the Architect. STEVE: Who drew up the plans? NORM: He drew up the plans. He will not charge anything if we do not build. STEVE: So, you have already had plans drawn up obviously, because I have looked at them. NORM: Part plans, pleminary plans. STEVE: So that says you are going to go ahead with it ev though you are not ready? BILL: No. A governmental body is obligated to go through a certain proceedure and a lot of times, unfortunately, under our system we have to go through that process. You follow me? To actually get to that stage, and a lot of times you will prepare plans and specifications and never build. We are obligated under the state statutes to do it that way. We can't do it any other way. We have to have an Architect design plans and specifications. We can't do it on our own and we can't hire anyone else to do it who is not certified to do it and it has to be an Architect because it is a public building. STEVE: The objection that I have is we as residents of Otsego pay for the plans that 1 looked at. We haven't paid a penny yet. We will not pay until we do the building.(NORM) STEVE: It really looks to me that it is cut and dried what we are going to do here even though we don't even know if we are going to build it. NORM: We haven't done nothing with the County yet, but like Bill says, we have to get all of these plans ahead of time. Meeting of 5/21/90 - Page 5 - HERB PECK: As I understand it you are developing this project architectally and it is contingent on you buying the building? NORM: Yes sir STEVE: It sounds like we are junping the gun here. FLOYD RODEN: And, it was also voted on at the Annual Meeting to go ahead with this proceedure. Just so you know. STEVE HOLLMER: After you get the feasibility study then would you be making a determination? NORM: Would you please state your name for the record everybody. What is your name sir? My name is Steve Hollmer. NORM: Thank you sir. And your name sir? I'm Herb Peck. My name is Adair Roseau. NORM: Do you all live around here? Yes, unfortunately we are going to be your new neighbors. MARIO: That is what really surprises me. You don't know what is really going on. We are your neighbors but you don' care. NORM: There is 7,000 people. Do you know all 7,000 people? MARIO: I think you should. That's part of being a politician. FLOYD: That's why we have meetings. MARIO: That's why you should know a lot of people NORM: Gene Kreiser. I want to raise a question and I want to get this thing straight once and for all. Maybe a month ago somebody called at my house and wanted me to be on the Planning Committee. My wife said that I was too busy. 1 didn't return the call. So finally one day I returned the call and I don't know which lady I talked to and 1 said I'm sorry I don't think 1 can be on the Planning Commission. Well, some way, form or fashion, my name is on the Planning Committee, NORM: Well maybe on the first one. 1 don't think it has Meeting of 5/21/90 - Page 6 - been on anymore since. GENE: I've never given consent for anyone to put it on and so Mario came over the first time I've ever met the man, he's my neighbor but I've never met him. He came over and 1 could tell he was a little bit ugly at me and 1 was wondering why and so finally after we talked awhile and pretty soon he pulled this paper out and said well what's your name, well you're on the Planning Committee if you don't know nothing about it. Well, I'm just a little bit disappointed in that. NORM: Well that was the first one and if you would have looked at the rest of the lists, he has all the information. The first list we had all the names that we thought was going to be on it. If you had looked at the rest of the lists, your name is not on it. If he did show you that, he should show you the whole, he should get all the facts out. MARTO: That's very interesting. NORM: Do you know all the facts? MARIO: No. That's why I'm finding out all the facts. come in here and I pull out the files and I copy them. NORM: The first one? Did you copy them all? MARIO: That's what she gave me. So she didn't give me all the files. BILL: How did it get on the first time though? DOUG: Because we thought he was going to he on. There are other ones too. ELAINE: Those are the people we put on. We called you. You were on that one. It was in the file, he copied the one in the file. After we called you we took you off. GENE: It put me in the middle of you know where, DOUG: Sure. I understand that. NORM: We apologize for that. I guess we knew you wern't on there. He (Mario) asked for the copies of information in the files so he took the files. GENE: T want to get along with my neighbors and I want to get along with you guys. But, I mean when you get hit like that sometimes, you wonder what is going on. Meeting of 5/21/90 - Page 7 - ELAINE: Well, thts what happened. It was not the current list. NORM: What was the question? I'm sorry. The question was, what was your time schedule ori the study? I don't think we have any time planned. We have to go to the County and we have to see that we get all the permits that we're supposed to get and it might be two to three months down the road. We want to start building by the Fall for sure if we can get all the permits. We have to get all the permits before we even dream of starting. I was just curious if you have a specific time table that you are going to try to meet. NORM: We thought maybe we would start this Fall. Maybe, but that is if we have got everything in order. But there is a lot of meetings before we start building DOUG: And we are falling behind right now. So I don't know if it will be much before Spring. It's hard to say. It depends on how things go. Didn't you say that at the Annual Town Meeting the people voted to bring the information on building back for the Reconveining ,of the Annual Meeting in June? FLOYD: That's what we are doing. We are trying to get them together. NORM: At the June Annual Meeting. I think it was June. (Elaine said yes it was.) We were supposed to have the figures at the meeting. That was brought up at the last Annual Meeting. Yes at the reconveining of the Annual Meeting (Elaine) in June. STEVE: Does anyone from the town here or anyone here start cutting down trees? NORM: We are just cutting down dead trees on our own property. No live trees? NORM: Sir, See, there again we are cutting down dead trees. We told somebody to cut down dead trees and right away we get hassled about everything. So, before anybody makes a committment and accuses people.. I'm not accusing, I'm asking a question. NORM: OK MARIO: I'm asking a question about dirt piles and those piles being intentionally put against trees so they will die. What about there is garbage back there. You know you have a dumping station in here— Meeting of 5/21/90 Page 8 - NORM: When? As of last Saturday. MARIO: I guess it has been here since I have been here. NORM: Well we are trying to do something for the Township people. I thought it was great. I don't know - you mentioned earlier - yesterday - there is a lot of polution out here. We are trying to clean up the Township for years and if you guys live here and you drive around the Township and for all you residents, there is a lot of bad places out here so we tried a clean-up day Saturday. I'll tell you it was a zoo out here. We have been trying to clean up for two or three days and tires now, we've been picking tires up every day along the road. Everyday he picks up twenty -to - thirty tires and the township has to pay to get rid of them. We put them over here. It will be gone in two days. We just had a clean-up day. We will have a clean-up day maybe once a year. I would rather have it here for a day or two instead of all over the Township. MARIO: This is what I've been trying to talk with you and communicate with you guys. There is ways and there is ways of doing things and the way it looks here is a competition of ways between the Board and us. (All the neighbors here). We don't have competition with any of the people in the Township except you, Sir. (NORM) Put that on the record. (reference to Mario) MARIO: Put it in the record that the reason we have competition is I come in here and tried to help and you totally ignored absolutely ignored. what I had to say. You do not, you do not handle garbage the way you handled it yesterday. Before you do that you have a responsibility for the well being of everybody in this Town from the traffic jams to the amount of garbage handled. I know I like to conserve too and I like to keep this place clean. I like to see it better. I have one of the nicest homes around here too. It's not that I'm against you or you or you. I don't have nothing against you, anyone of you. There's you and you and I don't even know you and him 1 don't even know where he lives (Jerry). But you (Norm) you are the most intellegent of the whole group in here. It is strange to me to see - you can't do certain things. There are certain ways to do things and this is a matter of law. That's who I went to see. I'm not an Attorney. That's because of certain things I see here before I went to talk to some people to see how things can be done this way. Is this the way the whole country is run? NORM: Why don't you come to some meetings sometime? You come during the day and ask all kinds of questions. Come some night and talk to us. You never do. Meeting of 5/21/90 Page 9 - MARIO: I come to meetings as much as . can. NORM: I've never seen you. MARIO: Well, see the thing is all of us here we would like to help you. You know what 1 would like to do. One of the reofl 1 wanted to talk to you. I've been trying to give money to have a garbage center here. So we don't have to have a rinky-dink building here that you will outgrow and you will put more money and pay the rest of the world to outgrow. We need a garbage center just like a modern new city. We are talking millions of dollars where the hell is the money coming in? We expect you to dig for gold? No. All of us will give to make cooperation to help you. NORM: You want a million dollar building? MARIO: What is that? NORM: You want to build a million dollar building in Otsego Township? MARIO: No, you know what a Government Center is? NORM: Yes sir. Your name sir: Russ Voight Thank you. RUSS VOIGHT: The thing I think a lot of people here in this Town are looking at are surrounding areas. Elk River has gone through more money than the law allows. NORM: I'm an your side. GENE: 1 think what the people are saying is that maybe you should set back and analyze what about - 5 years from now -a 10 year plan - a 20 year plan. STEVE: You want to annex, I've heard a 5 acre tract of land here. Is this facility going to be worth it in five years? What they are saying is maybe it would be a good thing to look at what Champlin did. NORM: What did they do? Have you taken a look? DOUG: No. I don't know what you are talking about. GENE: They knew that they were going to grow. This place is going to grow, naturally. DOUG: Oh, definitely GENE: They put all their Government Facilities in one tract Meeting of 5/21/90 - Page 10 of land. Why take one acre of land and try to put 20 acres of stuff in here? In another 10 years? Excuse me. I think what this Township should look at is the future. Not next year or five years. DOUG: We are. That why we have a planner. NORM: 1 think we've been looking at the future for the last five to six years. First you say we move too slow and now we're moving too fast. We are looking at everything. Some of these things should have been done ten years ago, but it too late now. We are not just jumping into it. We are looking at it. GENE: OK. I'll just say a couple of things and then I'll quit for the evening. Let's say - if you put a new building here what are you going to do for a Fire Department? A police Department? and if water ever comes in and sewer? . What are you going to do for them? The Fire Department,we will do it with Elk River for two or three years. (NORM) GENE: What are you doing for facilities? If you put a million dollars worth of building on this land and in 6 or 7 years whatever, you can't get $200,000.00 for it because it is inappropriate to have it here in the first place. Maybe you would have been better off - what 1 am saying is why don't the Township look at other tracts of land? Where you.. can buy 40 or 60 acres. NORM: We talked about that, but I'll tell you, what, if we can get 40 acres somewhere and get the money for it and build a hall. It's tough just trying to build a $300,000.00 Hall. We are trying to buy 2 or 3 acres, but we didn't annex any land. We didn't even talk about that. I'm just saying- that I think this owuld be, in fact, 1 know it would be covered by a feasibility study. I believe a person would be wise, or the Board would be wise to determine the amount of taxable property and the effects it would have on the residents or the property owners. It would be, in my opinion, rather foolish to over tax an area to maintain something that isn't problematically possible up top you see (HERB PECK) NORM: You're right. HERB: But, 1 guess that's feasibility. Thank You GENE: I feel the same way that he just explained the whole thing. • But, 1 definately think that if a whole bunch of us, not just you guys, but if some of us can get involved and tart taking a long range plan and set down and study what we are going to do. You and me, everybody in this room kn.ows Meeting of 5/21/90 -Page 11 - that in the matter of the next five years the way this area is growing, this thing is going to mushroom and it's just exactly as he said. He said this is not going to be big enough for what you guys need. So, why spend all this money now and us taxpayers, not just us, you guys are paying taxes just like we are, and why don't we set down and give this thing a year and study it and start looking for some good areas and see if we can't put this thing together before we jump into something and spend all this money foolishly and then we go all the way back to start over. Just like Roden over there, he's got a big farm and he's going to be paying big taxes. It's no different than us and I can't see why the whole bunch of us can't get together like gentlemen and set down and discuss this thing like a bunch of ordinary businessman and put it together, right? We are all going to be happy, we're all going to be friends, we are all going to be neighbors. But, if one guy is going to fight over here and one guy is going to fight over there, it's going to he nothing but neighbor fight neighbor. I think if everybody works together and puts their thing all in one packet we can solve this whole thing and everybody can be happy. NORM: Gene, I agree with you 100%, and I want to make a few statements on that. We did send out on our Otsego Township letter, we did put out a couple of the Leaders -R -Us meetings and we had two or three meetings and we got about six responses. We wanted everybody who wanted to volunteer to help join our organizations in our Township. We get 6 people involved, through our Newsletter. We are trying to get people involved, but we get 6 responses so the only time they come is when they have a problem, then they show up. We want them to help and show us what to do, but they don't show up. MARIO: I've been trying to call you for four months. NORM: At a meeting? I've been coming in and telling you 1 want to talk to MARIO: you. NORM: At a meeting? MARIO: So don't try to snowball me. NORM: At a meeting? Not in the morning? MARIO: Anyplace, personally, if it's done in the park, don't care. Lets talk about, I don't care you see if you buck me I'm going to be the Mayor of this Town. I'm tellk. you if you buck me, I'm going to be the Mayor of this Town because 1 don't like it to run a business this way. Listen meeting of 5/21/90 - Page 12 - you know me? (Asked a woman in the crowd) Answer: You got rid of some people. MARIO: That was a 1.7 Million dollar business. Gene: I guess the one thing that I would like to bring up at this meeting that is compactly different is that down here at our public landing is there some way that we could get a garbage container, or something put down there? Because my kids went down there fishing the other night and they said you should see the garbage and the tin cans down there. DOUG: Ya, but it was abused, Gene, we had one at Kadler Public Access and people hauled there garbage down there then free, and they have two piles on the sides too. MARIO: People came at night here and dump garbage. NORM: THat's what they do. MARIO: You live away from here. You see we live on the river front very valuable property. You are confusing this kind of action, you are to understand what you're doing. You see you're pretty noble, but the way you do things is not correct. You are going to get every agency, I'm not kidding you. You are going to get every agency in the State of Minnesota on your back. You have to start to understand one thing, we live in this Town, we live in this neighborhood. We want to make a better Town here. You have to start understanding, even if you don't like the color of my hair or the way I talk, we are human beings and would have respected you and I still respect you. I want to respect these guys too. We have to start running this like a business and you are not giving me no chance to try to help. I want you to give me a chance to try to help you. Give me a chance to help you. If you make me your enemie, I'm going all the way. Every single law I can get and every law firm that can help me I don't want to do that. That's my last recourse. That's why we should have an open meeting, a public meeting where everybody can say what they have to say. We find out last week that you guys got a thing going here, building this building. You have to understand one thing, I don't like to be fooled and she can tell you (refering again. to the woman in the crowd) I was dealing with a billion and one half dollar operation and T. saw people of all calibers and I dealt with people of all calibtrs. Now, don't try to snowball me. NORM: Now hold it - GENE: Can you explain what the Hearing in Buffalo on Friday is going to be about? NORM: That's to see if we can get with the County on the Planning Agenda, we have to get the plans, and they have to have to get building permits and the DNR and all that is involved, Meeting of 5/21/90 - Page 13 - DOUG: They have to approve it first. Gan you build the Town Hall, the new one without an extra five acres? We never said we were going to annex five acres. NORM: We have 5 acres. You're not trying to buyanymore? NORM: We are trying to buy more for future use is what we're looking at. Not for the Building now. That's what we said we are trying to plan ahead. Why do you want to spend the money if you don't lknow what we are going to do with the land? Why do you want to buy 5 acres down there? NORM: Well, someone just said we should buy 40 acres. DOUG: Future expansion. You have to have more. What I'm wondering here is if we can fit whatever we're building here on the acreage you now have. NORM: Yes. For any of this other stuff you're going elsewhere for fire, etc. (Norm) We don't need fire station. Normally when we build these Government Centers we try to consolidate. NORM: ING ROSKAFT: Go Ahead. I will try to explain to you that the people in this Township, there is almost 7,000 people in this Township. No we have never had a Town Hall that will fit people in. Last year, or 3 years ago when we had a big meeting we had to have the meeting out there and people were standing all around. They couldn't get in. They couldn't speak like you are speaking right now and therefore we need a bigger place to meet at whether it serves us five or ten years. Go over to Silver Creek or Rockford, these are bigger buildings then we might have here. (Tape is blurred - lots of people talking) At the Annual Meeting they voted to have this presented and checked through, etc. to be legal according to State Codes. They have to appear before the Board of Adjustment in Buffalo in order to clarify and get permission. Now, they don'L have all the facts and figures, then they won't be able to do it now. This particular site was picked by the people years ago because it is more centerally located. MARIO: It was a school. It wasn't originally a school. NORM: Hold it. ING: The Township is long and narrow and this is about as centerally located as can be done. MARIO: So is the River. Tug - I've got the river in front of my place too. GENE: The only thing I'm saying is I think a lot of people are disputing. 1 think a survey should be taken. There is a lot of land along 101 and that is light industrial. NORM: There is more tax money on 101 then here. If you want to take money from your Town, A lot more, there is no comparison. What 1 want to say is that these people that bought these nice homes here. This is going to be an industrial lot, NORM: Sir, this Hall has been here for 78 Meeting 5/21/90 - Page 14 - years. The Town Hall for 130 years. Whoever moved here, you knew that someday we would be expanding. Maria: You can buy someplace else if you want to expand. I make a living in this State and I know what is going on in every Town. Don't try to snowball me man. What the truth is this is the man here, he's the Engineer, he went to College to design Cities. Let's not put any pressure here from you guys in. the City. Let's let this guy decide here without any pressure from you guys. DOUG: What do you think we've been doing here with him? What do you think he's here for? We are working with him, that's what we are doing. MARIO: (to David Licht, Planner) Can you tell me do you recommend we build the Town Hall here? That's what you recommend? DAVE LICHT: First of all, I'm not an Engineer. MARIO: You're not an Engineer? MARIO: To Larry Koshak, Engr. Do you recommend the City be built right here? That's what you recommend? You tell me the real truth here. So that's what you recommend that we put the City here? Give me the truth. You are working for us. Tell me the truth man. We are paying you. Tell me exactly what you are telling them. Do you think they are paying you? Dave Licht tried to explain, MARIO, The Engineer, the Engineer, Answer the question. Tell me the truth. NORM: Let him finish sir, DAVE LICHT: There has not been a recommendation to the Board on the site. MARIO: Wait a second, you're an Engineer, you know just by going by here where is the site that you recommend. NORM: Hey, we are in the process. MARIO: He's the Engineer man. He knows what to do. Tell me the truth. NORM: I'll tell you the truth, one minute and we're done. MARIO: Of course - Look if that's the way you're going to keep doing it, I'm going to fight you and I gonna fight you and I gonna fight you and I'm gonna fight you and fight you until 1 have a drop of blood left. If you keep doing this kind of stuff I'm gonna fight you and I'm gonna get every .law available in this Country and I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go and I'm gonna go until I've got no blood .left. NORM: One more word, let me tell you something. We said we would meet with you any time any place anywhere. MARIO broke in. NORM: Let me finish. Tonight you said you wanted to meet with us and we said yes. Normally we don't meet until 8:00 at the regular meeting. We said we would meet with you Meeting of 5/21/90 Page 15 and discuss it for a minute: MARIO broke in. NORM: Now hold it. Now we have got to go. It's done. Anytime I'll meet with you, but not today. We have a regular meeting and we have a lot on. the Agenda. DOUG: I make a motion we adjourn. NORM: I second it. MARIO: Can 1. speak to you? NORM: We got to get going. MARIO talked to Bill Radzwill and said hop you're ready. You will need it. NORM: We have to get going on the other meeting we're late and the Regular Town Board Meeting followed. These minutes typed by Elaine Beatty, Deputy Clerk from the tape of the meeting.