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11-22-1993 Special Meeting MinutesSTATE OF MINNESOTA The City Council of the City of COUNTY OF WRIGHT Otsego, called a Special Council CITY OF OTSEGO Meeting this 22ND day of November 1993 by Norman F Freske, Mayor. This meeting was a Special Informational Meeting on the LeFebvre's Watershed at 6:30PM. Also present were Doug Lindenfelser, Floyd Roden, Larry Fournier and Ron Black, Council Members. Andy MacArthur, City Attorney, Larry Koshak, City Engineer, Elaine Beatty, DeputyClerk/Zoning Administrator and Judy Hudson, Secretary. Mayor Freske turned the meeting over to Engineer, Larry Koshak.' Mr Kosh'ak explained that this meeting is being held to bring people and land owners in this particular area up-to- date. We are proposing the LeFebvre's Watershed District in the County Rd #42 and State Hwy #101 area and the watershed is bound by Page Avenue and Sadowski's farm. It goes to John LeFebvres property N to #39 and #101. He had exhibits and talked about them. The last meeting was last January. We are planning for future storm water drainage. Last meeting we talked about different options we could do in the future time frame and we talked about putting pipes across the Kolles farm and the options there. At this time it would break up the farming in the area and they are quite expensive. We also looked at the proposed future MSA street that would traverse the property of #42 and #101. It is on our map for sometime in the future. At that time we could look at storm water drainage. Those two items are talking about the future. We are talking about the ditch on Co Rd #42 and 85TH to #42. The proposed overland waterway for the drainage is in the watershed area circled in yellow on the map. We are talking about future and the existing conditions in that area. Light blue on the map is the elevations below 860 which is the 100 year flood in that area. To fill that area the owner would be required to get a permit from the Corps of Engrs and go thru the city and abide by their Ordinance.. There is a large area in there that is below the 860. The Corps of Engrs generally allows excavation, but not filling without special conditions. We are talking about the main drainage in the blue area which is already flood plain. The second exhibit shows what we are looking for ultimately in drainage easements in yellow. In green is the proposed channel area. Heavy green is the existing channel. The pipe from #101, to Sebecks is where there is a defined channel. The rest of the area doesn't have a defined channel. We took elevations and topos in the area to define where the lowest area is where the water can be channeled thru. Koshak felt that this easement area is the ultimate area to channel water. The orange lines are property owners. We are talking about future and how we can manage street water run off in this area. Mr Koshak talked about the drainage and pipes and what the different areas had for CFS. He said that we are talking about future situations and that we would need to channel the CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING ON LEFESVRES WATERSHED INFORMATIONAL MEETING OF 11/22/93 AT 6:30PM. - PAGE 2 - ditch. Mr Koshak talked about ultimate ditch channels. Typical sections are trees and vegetation on the Wild and Scenic side of the creek. We propose to leave that as is and widen the other side that doesn't have much vegetation in the bottom 4 to 6 feet wide and improve the flow in the creek. Most of the channel depth would be increased only slightly. The upper section between Sebeck and 85TH ST, we would construct a wide swale so it could be farmed (5 to 1). In doing so, we would provide an efficient waterway and we feel the area would be enhanced. There would be larger ponds to support wildlife habitat and wetland environment. We have been working with Mn/DOT on pipe size under the highway. In the junction N of #42 and #101 there are pipes under the road. They are proposing to install additional pipes under that road. They will be removing the existing pipe and replacing it by Benesh property. They will push another pipe under #101 which would increase it to 340 CFS capacity which is twice what is now needed. Based on The current zoning the amount would be 165 CFS. Additional pipes will be put in, two new 42" at Mississippi Riverwood Campgrounds and add extended 24" pipe at 500' N of Miss. Riverwood Campgrounds, to bring it up. There are three points of crossing that the capacity will be added to; 39 and 101 there will be 24' high 8' wide box culvert with capacity of 240 CFS. It would drain the pond in the corner with an outlet to the river. The box culvert will go across 39. Mn/DOT is providing the high volume outlets to the river so there should be adequate capacity to the river. Upstream, the SE corner W of Quaday there is 1200 acres that Jim LeFebvre's and Darkenwald will be limited to the capacity of the culvert under 42. If that is developed it would need to limit by ponding to 50CFS with that capacity under 101 and ponding we should be able to address the future storm drainage. We are looking to address the need to acquire easements over this area we are talking about. They are significant in the near future for the present Zoning situation for the city. There is a need to preserve that land, an easement is best described as giving up a partial right on a land. The City rights are limited to entering the property and construction or maintenance of a drainage facility. The property owner can not close a ditch or impair the drainage. The vegetative cutting is not a function of the drainage easement. We are interested in acquiring these easements to preserve that land for the future under a drainage easement. There is no immediate time frame for a construction project. There would need to be a petition from owners or a health threat to get this drainage ditch project started. The DNR has designated this as a waterway. The only body that can work in the creek is the City of Otsego. Without an CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING ON LEFEBVRES WATERSHED INFORMATIONAL MEETING MINUTES OF 11/22/93 — PAGE 3 — easement, we can't perform the maintenance tasks. This is just an informational meeting. At this point the meeting was turned back to the Mayor by Mr Koshak. Andy MacArthur, City Attorney had no comments when asked, he said he may have some as questions are asked. Doug Lindenfelser, Council Member asked what is the width of the easement? Mr Koshak said it varies and we are willing to negotiate with the owners. We need an area to operate and get in to construct where there are existing ponds, we would include those in the drainage easement. Larry Fournier, Council Member asked why don't we increase the capacity under Co Rd #42? Mr Koshak said that is an option for the City. We would have to put another pipe in there. George Sebeck, a resident of the drainage area said that this year the pipe under #42 went to full capacity and we had two to two and one-half feet of water in our front yard. Who will bear the construction cost of the ditch? He asked how they will get into the property to the ditch? Mr Koshak said we are not talking about a project now. There are different ways to fund a project. 1. City general fund, 2. Contribution as someone develops, 3. assess property owners Most of this land is flood plain and the question of development is another issue. Some of the right of way can be acquired under MSA because we would have easements of water off of 85TH St. As far as access to the ditch, as each construction project is done we will acquire access by some means. The only reason they would come back, is to maintain the ditch after it is done. George Sebeck - If you are widening the ditch, and stay away from the vegetation, you would be coming towards my house. Mr Koshak said we are willing to discuss that with the property owners. Mr Sebeck, does the City have to prove that you are improving the property? Mr MacArthur answered that the market value would have to be proved and he explained how it works and an appraiser would have to do that. Jim LeFebvre asked what direction would the water from John LeFebvre's farm run? Mr Koshak said that there is a swale N of the farm that comes out to the overflow that way. The farm land has depressions that hold the water. There are ponds in Country Ridge and when we had that large rain it did overflow. Diane Sebeck - You express to us that this is wetland CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING ON LEFEBVRES WATERSHED INFORMATIONAL MEETING ON 11/22/93 - PAGE 4 - and you are taking land. There is a public frontage road going thru this. You are taking valuable land from us that we may be able to develop after we fill. Mr Koshak - There is a permit process that the City would have to go thru. Diane Sebeck - said her concern is with the wild life. You are running oil and salt into it. I think you are insulting us by saying you are increasing wildlifehabitat. Mr Koshak explained sediment and how it works. Ron Black, Council Member Said let's assume for discussion that the entire parcel was owned by one party or a combination of parties that wanted to develop the property and can't the City vacate easements if they wished to? Mr Koshak said that there would have to be significant ponding if this developed. We don't want to impact the area any more then it is today. He explained the whole process more and what they are trying to do. We are talking about preserving the environment as much as possible and live with that plan. George Benesh - A resident of the area said land North of 101 is in flood plain, but not flooded since 1961. What will happen with the water running in that creek? Will that flood into that land? Mr Koshak - said that floodplain numbers come from FEMA and they determine, based on the Corps of Engineers the 100 year profile. FEMA says this is flood fringe area. The floodway is the channel of the river. If you haven't seen it back up, it might be true, but the Federal Government established that area. He talked about the pipes being increased twice in capacity. Mr Benesh asked what happens if this is drained down and it sprays up on that land? Only in 1965 was that land under any water. Mr Koshak said that the FEMA information is what we deal with. We are trying to improve the chance that your land won't flood. Ron Pouliot - Did you want to do this to this creek so it stays as it is? Mr Koshak - We want to maintain the environment. The land can always be sold. Mr Pouliot said a 100' easement puts you in the back door of his house. You would have to take every tree out of it. If this water is coming from a housing development why don't they pay. Mr Koshak said they already have. Mr Sebeck said he doesn't want to be assessed for the ditch. Mr Pouliot - You mean that the DNR would allow you to put in a ditch. Mr Koshak said the DNR and the City would work together. Mr Pouliot - Why not put in pipe? CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING ON LEFEBVRES WATERSHED INFORMATIONAL MEETING OF 11/22/93 — PAGE 5 — Mr Koshak said in Otsego development is the only kind of thing that would produce funds for drainage. Mr Pouliot said if you have an improvement, they can put in pipe at that time. George Yankoupe - From Darkenwalds, asked if you anticipate any opposition from the DNR with the ducks and fish living in the creek? Mr Koshak said the DNR would come out and look at it, and they may set some different criteria. They will respect the ability for the City to look for solutions for their storm water drainage. We keep DNR appraised. John Darkenwald - What portion of the watershed is this portion in? Mr Koshak - It is the 400 or 500 acre map and SW 1200 acres. Mr Darkenwald - In the future, how do you protect and make sure that all the assessments are relatively fair? Is that a problem? Mr Koshak - It will have to be developed as a storm water policy for the City. We are doing initial planning to have something to go by for future development. There has to be a policy on how to assess property. Mr Darkenwald - Said you are only dealing with 1/3 of the watershed. You talk about 160CFS. Capacity is 50CFS or 1/3. George Yankoupe - If the system works as it is now, you are going to require other land owners to put ponds in? Why do we have to dig the ditch larger? Mr Koshak - said the City is looking for the ability to maintain the creek. Someone has to have the ability to repair and maintain the creek. If we rely on each land owner along there, it normally wouldn't work. Darlene Cota - I have excess water that I never had before. There is starting to be a problem already. Mr Koshak - This year is one of the wettest years on record and the water table is quite high. This area has impervious materials. Ms Cota - There is an existing problem caused by the developer and the road. Mr Koshak - That is very possible. Mr Sebeck - If this ditch goes thru, it will be splitting our property. Do they put in a culvert, or what? Mr Koshak - We have to provide access to the other side if we split your property. CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL COUNCIL MEETING ON LEFEBVRES WATERSHED INFORMATIONAL MEETING OF 11/22/93 - PAGE 6 Floyd Roden motioned to close the Lefebvre Watershed Informational Meeting. Ron Black seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously. Meeting closed at 7:35PM. CITY OF OTSEGO: ak-12--41- MAY, R ORMAN F FRESKE D U$ND NFELS , COUNCIL F OYD UNCIL LARR RO' BLACK, C NCfL ATTEST: E rRE BEATTY, DEPUTY CLERK/ZONING ADM. EB oPa-144-W OURNIER, COUNCIL