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05-02-1994 Emergency Meeting MinutesCITY OF OTSEGO, COUNTY OF WRIGHT, STATE OF MINNESOTA PROCEEDS OF AN EMERGENCY COUNCIL MEETING MAY 2, 1994 - 7:30PM OTSEGO CITY HALL MINUTES 1. MAYOR NORMAN F FRESKE WILL CALL THE MEETING TO ORDER: Mayor Freske called the meeting to order at 7:30PM. ROLL CALL: NORMAN F FRESKE, MAYOR, RON BLACK, FLOYD RODEN, LARRY FOURNIER AND DOUG LINDENFELSER, COUNCIL MEMBERS WERE PRESENT. ALSO PRESENT WAS LARRY KOSHAK, CITY ENGINEER AND ELAINE BEATTY, DEPUTY CLERK/ZONING ADMINISTRATOR. 2. DISCUSSION OF FLOODING AND WATER PROBLEMS AND POSSIBLE $OLUITIONS: Norm Freske explained what the Council had done and looked at so far. They met with Mrs Luconic W/ Mr Koshak. Larry Koshak said in conclusion, after lengthy discussion, Mike Luconic and Lou Luconic were leery about anybody doing anything on their land. They felt that anything that would be done may be a detriment to the future use of the land. Larry Fournier said that if there were some proper legal safeguards they would consider a short term berm. They were concerned what the DNR would say and the wetland problems. They want to be sure that their land is not negatively impacted. They wanted to make sure that when they are ready to develope they will be able to. They are concerned about forming a new wetland somewhere else. If you dug a ditch, where would it go? Larry Koshak said if you bermed it up on your land they could force the water to the West. The culvert by City Hall, if it were bermed off and it was left to run down the ditch by City Hall, it would help said a resident. Doug Lindenfelser said the water flows to the East. Larry Koshak said the culvert by Dennis McAlpine's drive is the controlling culvert. The original culvert was broken and full of debris. This new one is flowing faster. The DNR said we can drain the wetlands l' below the ordinary high water mark. The bottom of the culvert is 3" above that . Today we put some sandbags on the bottom of that culvert. The watershed has not changed, contrary to some peoples opinions. The water that is Mason this weekend is flowing full. Why is there no water running in front of City Hall? Larry Fournier said it would have to go up hill. Larry Koshak explained that we had to put an additional pipe back in Mrs Constant's land. We put a high point in the ditch. When the water gets extremely high it will flow over here. CITY OF OTSEGO EMERGENCY COUNCIL MEETING ON WATER PROBLEMS OF MAY 2, 1994 AT 7:30PM - PAGE 2 - Mr Wiltermuth - When you built Nashua Avenue you talked about putting a system along this side of the road and bringing the water to Otsego Creek. The cost was $70,000.00 What would stop us from doing that now? Larry Koshak - To do all these ditches and drainage, we have to have a permit from the DNR. We need easements over these properties. If we went out the other way, there are at least two properties on 91ST, plus the Havel property and John Anderson's property. We are probably dealing with at least 4 property owners. That is one solution. The next one is to put an overflow at the pipe down here on the North of McAlpines and run it down the ditch. It would have to come to the other side of the road and the pipe would have to go on the W side and it would be taken down to the river. We would have to get an easement from the Jakubiec property. That is 1/2 mile of pipe, you are talking about a considerable amount of investment, from $50,000.00 and up. Larry had no idea what size pipe. (At least 23"). Mr Wiltermuth stated they came to the meeting first in 1986. They have been corning here all this time. What is the next step? Do we have a hearing? Larry Koshak said the Council has ordered topos for this area. An overall drainage study is to be done in September. If there are problems in your area the best thing for you to do is get a petition. Mr Michaels - asked How much will this cost us? If we spent this money on topos and drainage study, that doesn't solve our problem. Larry Fournier - said you are looking at overflow water. The other problem is a high water table. Mr Michaels - how many times do we have to be flooded out to have you people do something? We don't want a study, we would like a culvert run down here to the river. We understand it is a high water problem. Doug Lindenfelser - Paying for this system is the problem. Are you willing to pay for this system? Norm Freske brought up Halls pond. We have to assess more than just you 10 people. You would be willing to pay your share, but benefit needs to be shown. Mr Michaels - What is our recourse? Mrs wood - said they did not benefit from Halls pond. People up stream did benefit. Norm Freske - I think the City can kick in some money also. Mrs Wood - We are talking overflow water. This problem is a problem state wide said Norm Freske. Mr Michaels asked about the County. Doug Lindenfelser said if you go to the County, you are wasting your time. Norm explained the County didn't do anything with the Halls Pond Water Project. Steve Wiltermuth - asked if the Council can call an informational Hearing. Larry Fournier - suggested that the Council get a petition from the residents. Mrs Wood - said why can't we do that now? CITY OF OTSEGO EMERGENCY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 2, 1994 AT 7:30PM - PAGE 3 - Mr Black - said we are talking about a #429 Hearing. It is important to see lots of community support for a project. Second would be a waver of appeal for the assessments. Basically Larry Koshak explained how a Public Improvement Project works. That 35% of the ownership petitions, 4/5 vote needed otherwise a 3/5 vote if a petition. For the Halls project, the runoff was part of the watershed. The property owners were identified. They were sent a notice of a Public Hearing. Its not an instant process. An appraiser has to go out. We walked every area. The appraiser has to show benefit to the property owner. You have to make sure everybody benefits by the assessment. Larry Koshak was asked by Norm what would be the best way to go. Larry said if we put in something and spend money on it*, there has to be long term benefit. Bill Lampson - With the Halls Water project they stopped at the fence line behind our property. That is where the water is flowing. Larry Koshak said - Two 14' culverts will not handle the 24' culvert. If it rains or short term overflow, we can handle it. The 89th Street culvert is not cleared out, but the culvert on Nashue Avenue is. Mrs Wiltermuth - sais It would have to go to Halls Pond. Mr Micheals - said we need 35% of the population. If we can't get that what can we do. You were assessed to be able to hook up to Halls Pond someday. Floyd Roden said he feels the day is here to do that. Maybe we should have a Hearing , get some information and do it. Ron felt it was pointless to speculate. That is the purpose for mapping. It is a partial answer to the question of what can be done. If 35% of the residents agree, the Council can on it's own order an improvement. After driving through the area over the years, one of the things I would support is a stormwater and street improvement over the entire area. The concern is the cost. In Elk River Special Assessments were astronomical. It could escalate from one thing to a lot of things. The whole area needs a lot of public improvements. Mr Michaels - My taxes have tripled in 8 years. We have a new City Hall. We have become a City. I don't see many improvements. Larry Koshak - said the meeting was called because you folks asked us something. See if you can get 35% from the people in the area that are directly affected. They asked the Council to give them a boundary. Larry Koshak - said Obrian - 88TH, Ochoa and 90TH. and 91ST. to 85TH North. Mrs Wood asked what they could do in the meantime? Larry Koshak - said we did restrict the flow on Nashua Avenue. Dave Chase will keep a check on them. Ron Black - said he is hoping that the bandaid approaches are being considered by the City Attorney. MrsWood - said there is three times the water that goes through there. You can't tell me that the City is not responsible. CITY OF OTSEGO EMERGENCY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 2, 1994 AT 7:30PM - PAGE 4 - Black said he objects to damming culverts, because of liability.If we can proceed in an orderly fashion and get a project going, I think that is great. Mrs Wood felt the City is responsible for their houses flooding. Ron did not agree. Scott Contrell said the water is going in his yard. The guy that owned the house before me said there are tiles out there. Digging a ditch along Nashua, what is wrong with that. Isn't there an emergency thing we can do? Doug Lindenfelser asked about emergency pumping, is there anything available for funding for that? Doug Lindenfelser mentioned about pumping the pond into the ditch. This would only be a temporary fix. Mr Wiltermuth has a problem with a waiver of appeal. Ron felt it makes the public nervous also. More discussion was had. Larry Koshak - said a petition says, "It's petitioning the City Council to do an improvement." That is what the Council needs to hear. Ron Black has a couple sample petitions he can bring in. Mr Michaels - Asked if your house was Scotts house, what would you do? Ron Black replied that he would pump it where it could go. Mr Michaels - If he pumps the water onto the neighbors would he be liable? Scott asked Mr Black about his house and he lost $30,000.00 because of flooding. He explained about buying a house and building equity. Ron Black - said he is trying to move it from a private problem to a public problem. Mr. Michaels - How is it a private problem? Mrs Wood - said when the water is coining for miles is it a public problem. If the public chooses to become involved, then it becomes a public problem. Mr Wood - asked if you can pump as an emergency. Mayor Norman F Freske - said they would check into that. He explained the Halls pond and the stories they heard. We have done everything we possibly can. He explained the Halls water project. Mr Wiltermuth asked if they do their own petition. Larry F said we are asking them to do that. Ron said that the petition has to say you want an improvement. Just write it on the petition. Mr Wiltermuth - asked about the waiver, do you need it or not? Larry Fournier - said a petition will start the process. Bill Lampson - asked if we can get a pump? Norm said the City cannot pump unless you are paying for it. We can check with the Corps. of Engrs. Mr Michaels - If the culvert was run down Nashua, what would it hook into? Otsego Creek, if the DNR approved it. POSSIBLE ACTION: The residents will get a petition for the Council./Mapping is being done/ Larry Koshak or the Council will check with the Corps.of Engrs. DNR Dan Lais is head of Waters and CITY OF OTSEGO EMERGENCY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES OF APRIL 2, 1994 AT 7:30PM - PAGE_ 5 - would know about a _ ant. T. lk about the residents .urn in it and a level beim shot on the pond. Ingleside Engineering on #55 should have the pump and pipe. Northern dewatering in Rogers may have one. 4. ANY OTHER COUNCIL BUSINESS: NONE 5. ADJOURN: Meeting adjourned at 8:45 FLOYD RODEN MOTIONED TO ADJOURN. RON BLACK SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. RESKE, MAYOR DOUG FLO 0 r (ADEN, 'O NCIL /1 RO BLACK, COUNCIL ATTEST: RY FOIJRNIEII, COUNCIL ELAINE BEATTY, DEPUTY CLERK//TONING ADM.