05-12-1994 Special Workshop MinutesFile: CC5494.WPS
COUNCIL MEETING OF '1III CITY OF OTSEGO,
COUNTY OF WRIGHT, STATE OF MINNESOTA
SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING
MAY 12, 1994 - 8PM
1. MAYOR NORMAN F FRESKE WILL CALL THE WORKSHOP TO ORDER:
Mayor Norman F Freske called the meeting to order at 8:05PM
ROLL CALL:
NORMAN F FRESKE, MAYOR, RON BLACK, LARRY FOURNIER AND rLOYD
RODEN, COUNCIL WERE PRESENT. DOUG LINDENFELSER, COUNCIL WAS
ABSENT.
ELAINE BEATTY, DEPUTY CLERK/ZONING ADMINISTRATOR, KEVIN KIELB,
LARRY KOSHAK AND JOHN HARWOOD, ENGINEERS WERE PRESENT
2. DISCUSSION WITH DARKENWALD'S REAL ESTATE REGARDING THEIR
MOBILE HOME FACILITY:
GEORGE YANKOUPE, AND JOHN DARKENWALD WERE PRESENT AS WAS
WALLY ODELL AND TOM BAILLARGEON, PARKS AND RECS BD CHAIR
Larry Koshak explained he met with John and George two different times and they talked
about their treatment plant and how it were to be used with their properties. 60,000 gals
per day the plant has capacity for. They are presently using 30,000 gals per day. They
are doing an excellent job down there. It is going very well. There is a limitation on the
poundage that goes into the river. The plant is producing 5 Milligrams per liter which is
very low. The pounds going into the river is very low. When you add more capacity to
the Max your treatment capabilities will diminish.
PCA says any expansion to the plant would have to go through the re -issuing of the
permit. It would have to have enough facility plan or a plan to indicate that there is a
need for expansion. Same with 100# on BOD to the river there has to be a substantial
reason for that. (such as failed septic tanks.) Now it is our feeling is it would be difficult
to get an expansion of the plant.
Larry K talked about bringing the school into the plant. They didn't see that as a
problem, with Darkenwald's owning the plant, and allowing the school to come in. They
would want a closer situation with the City and the Plant. The City would become a
more responsible partner, even though Darkenwald's would charge the School to take
care of the sewage. If something went haywire, the City would have to be a backup.
Larry Koshak explained further.
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 12,
1994 AT 8PM - PAGE 2 -
John Darkenwald said there is a direct responsibility of the City if the plant is not run
right.
John Harwood had an overall view of sewer capacity needs in this area. He was trying to
build on the Darkenwald plant to meet the current need of the City. He showed a map of
different areas with gallons per day attached with each area. He looked at the three areas
where we anticipate immediate pressure for development. (Co #39 & 42 and School and
the #42 & 101 Darkenwald area). He attached gallons to each area. The plant was set up
for four additional bays to go up to 60,000 per day. It gets increasingly difficult,
considering the W & S area.
John Darkenwald said as for limiting the poundage going into the river, there is a
solution for that through ponding, etc.
Larry K said what we are talking about is very little change to the plant.
John Darkenwald said chlorinating the pond is one solution.
John Harwood said he spent some time with the PCA and they were very complimentary.
It is running at 1/2 capacity, which helps. John Harwood explained further.
John Darkenwald explained how they designed and worked the plant. The polishing
pond is they key.
John Harwood felt with 60,000 per day it would change the poundage amount. They
talked about an additional pond being added.
John Darkenwald said on the West side of 101 additional ponding may be possible.
If you can do it within the originally loading of the original permit there shouldn't be a
problem.
John Harwood explained further. PCA would prefer spray irrigation, etc..
Larry Koshak said the degree of treatment increases and the higher the degree of
treatment, the higher the costs. With rapid filtration you just have to do an SD permit.
John Harwood also showed the same areas with less treatment use. for Commercial and
Industrial. John explained that this would be the existing plant without a whole lot of
money. He talked about it being expensive. Everything needs to be lifted to the existing
sewer plant. It would be expensive, but it is feasible.
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 12,
1994 AT SPM - PAGE 3 -
George Yankoupe asked if Larry K or John Harwood had and figures for rapid infiltration
system. How much area? Larry K didn't have the figures now. He talked about it. You
need a granular soil with the water table being deep enough. He explai $ tc d the storage
and spraying, etc. You can do aeration of the ponds also. There is n, possibility of that
along the rivers edge. Granular soils and close to the river is a plus.
John Harwood showed the long term Industrial and Commercial. You are talking of a
total of one million gallons a day. He explained how you cs ,uld do it. This would be at
least a 5 year planning process to get this implemented.
Larry Koshak said John's numbers are based on gross id. You may not get that much
acreage. John Harwood said you want to be on the <;: t e side. The planning process needs
to be started. What kind of disposal takes two to ee years.
Larry Fournier said we are talking one system. in an area this large maybe two systems
would be better.
Larry Koshak said it is more efficient to have one system with one Crew to handle it.
Ponding is the least costly. We hav,: to stay in our watershed because of gravity.
Everything will end up being pum ped.
George Yankoaipe stated he is a professional Engineer, and he has operated a plant. A
joint study needs to be done with using different ways of doing it. It may come down to
getting sonic services from Elk River on the North End.
John Harwood said 4 ale Elk River option is dead.
George said the solution is in the quality discharged into the river.
Larry K said a; her so!' 4i
From a septic : V;Gtc m.
on is pumping the gray water down to the treatment facility,
John Darker d said Industrial with toxic waste would be a problem. You have to be
very cart:: to .
No in 'Ceske talked about a cluster system.
Larry Koshak said the school system in located on a feedlot. The PCA said you have to
do nitrate stripping, which is like putting in a treatment plant. In the farm land, putting in
large systems is difficult.
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 12,
1994 AT 8PM - PAGE 4 -
John Darkenwald asked about the graywater system. John Harwood said there is an
economic solution to that. The septic tanks would need to be pumped. More discussion
was had. You can do a cluster system. That is one approach we can use.
Ron Black said he would like to keep it concentrated on Commercial and Industrial.
John Harwood said handle the area now as far as the permitting process.
Larry Kohsak talked about the area around the school would be key properties for
development and can be maximized with sewer and water.
John Darkenwald talked about the polishing ponds can be very clean. You can raise fish
in them.
Darkenwalds have area for polishing ponds. That is what they had planned. With
ponding they can meet this. They would like to get involved in a study to work out
treatment for this area said John Darkenwald.
Land being acquired for ponds was discussed. Larry Koshak said there is some land S
and E of the Darkenwald's plant that can be feasible. There is a 1/4 mile from a home
restriction for the ponds said Larry Koshak.
Larry Koshak said the immediate situation is the School. We need to let them know by
July and August. More discussion was had on the School and system. A gravity line
with a lift station was discussed for the school. Cost would be $25.00 for gravity for
1,000 to 2,200 sq ft Lift station at $35,000.00. Force main under the road. A 4"
forcemain would have to be put in a 12" casing.
Figure out what the school sewer installation may cost and a design for the general area.
We need numbers to see if it is realistic.
John Harwood would like to get some information on how big the treatment plant can be
made. We need available ponding areas from willing landowners.
John Darkenwald brought up irrigation and it being a positive thing.
Ron Black said why don't we continue with this. Norm Freske agreed.
3. REVIEW OF THE STREET PLANNING (BETWEEN 101 AND 42 AND W OF
42)
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 12,
1994 AT 8PM - PAGE 5 -
Larry Koshak explained the exhibit Kevin had put together. Kevin explained the possible
developments between 101 and #42 in Otsego and how it relates to the Comp Plan. He
talked about the 101 improvements. The orange on the map is the MN/DOT roadway to
the E. The blue lines are in planning Dist. #4 Service Road. The pink roads are planned
for the #101 Service drive. He explained the industrial area, with 5A Industrial, 2-1/2
Acre lot sizing for where the Elk River Bank is proposed . The yellow lines are roadway
configurations. The above mentioned lot sizing and configuration for the area. Larry
Koshak explained further. The lots E of #42 are 300' depth. They would have to screen
them and the parking would be in the rear. There is room for the #101 side of the road.
(N of 85TH).
Ron talked about the problem with getting out on 94TH. With #42 being rebuilt, and the
reconstruction of the bridge in the morning you are getting a lot of traffic going south. It
won't be too long and it will be a problem.
Larry Koshak said a potential for a light would be 96TH Street, way in the future.
Ron asked how the street layouts would generally change if the area W of 101 and E of
Parrish were sewered.
Larry K said for Ind and Comm they wouldn't want to be much smaller than 1 acre. The
streets as laid out will make maximum use of the land. The property to the E, there is a
lot of floodplain.
Kevin said the Industrial District to the right of Quaday Avenue, that land lies within the
100 year flood -plain.
Larry K talked about the floodfringe and filling and finding the volume to fill. On flood
fringe you have to replace what you take. Those lots will have islands and septic tank
drainfields will have to be built up. It wouldn't be needed if there was municipal sewer
and water. Larry explained where the service road access would be. (see map)
Quaday is on the list for MSA. They drew a proposed road in the Darkenwald property E
of quaday and S of #42. We have the preliminary plat for the Bank of Elk River. The
road in there is 30 or 40 MPH road. A 40MPH road has a larger radius.
Ron Black asked why 40MPH? You will have all those businesses in there.
Kevin said they went with 600' lot depths. The position of the road was discussed. and
how to service the road. The pink road on the map would be the interior street. The blue
road would be the MSA road.
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 12,
1994 AT 8PM - PAGE 6 -
Larry Koshak said the issue of getting across the creek, it may need a bridge instead of
just a culvert.
John Darkenwald asked if after you identify the roads, can you change them down the
line?
Larry K said yes. Until you spend money on it, you can move it said John Harwood.
George Yankoupe asked about when it applies "design and construction". Plans and
Specs. You can't get any money out of it until you construct it said Larry Koshak.
Larry Koshak said this map is for discussion only. If the Council feels they would like to
adopt a conceptual street plan you can do that. Larry K will have to check with Dave
Licht to see if it would be appropriate.
Kevin said it bridges the gap between the actual design and the comp plan.
Larry K said they would put this on a permanent copy if you agree and take it to the PC
as a conceptual street plan.
Ron Black felt it was a good idea, because we already have a landowner coming in with
an initial phase of a plan. There should be something to look at.
Floyd Roden said he felt it was important for the owners to get the most use of their
property.
John Harwood said this is just advisory.
George Yankoupe said they are not real happy about the Quaday road south of #42. They
don't feel it is the best use of the property.
Larry Koshak will put this on a hard copy.
This will be on the Council Agenda of 5/23/94.
4. ANY OTHER COUNCIL BUSINESS:
Mayor Norm Freske brought up the $6,000.00 that they want to put into the Park at the
School. Would the City pay half?
Ron Black said they have the excavation on site and they will flatten out and make
another activity field for $6,000.00. The School district would do half or $3,000.00.
There is a similar arrangement with the City of Elk River and their ballfields. It was
CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF MAY 12,
1994 AT 8PM - PAGE 7 -
agreed that we need more information. There are some unanswered questions. There
would be no City liability. Jeff Asfahl will coordinate the activities on School land. It
was agreed not to commit tonight. We need more information.
Ron Black explained he had talked to Don Meinhardt, Architect:
He explained that on Don Meinhardt's bill - He said he had been asked to do the sign
design, so he went ahead and did it. Consensus of the Council is to pay for the sign.
From now on we need a motion or a letter for the record.
5. ADJOURN MEETING:
RON BLACK MOTIONED, FLOYD RODEN SECONDED TO ADJOURN.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
NORMAN F FRESKE, MAYOR
ATTE
EL I B ATTY, DEPU CLERK/
ZONING ADMINISTRATOR
(CITY SEAL)
Date:
To:
From:
.,object:
CITY OF OTSEGO
OFFICE MEMORANDUM
May 19, 1994
City Council & Staff
Ron Black
Tornado Warning System
The City of Otsego does not own a storm warning system. At this time the only
warning devices are the three owned and operated by NSP in conjunction with the Nuclear
Power Plant. The three sirens are located on County Road 19, Kadler Avenue and in
Island View Estates.
I met with Sergeant Rollie Helgeson, the communications supervisor with the
Wright County Sheriffs Office. The sheriffs office activates the siren for 9 to 10
communities in Wright County. Activation of the siren is by the dispatchers. Reports of
tornadoes, straight line winds and nuclear incidents will trigger the alarm. Each siren
system is tested on the first Wednesday of each month.
Sergeant Helgeson made the following recommendations:
1. All sirens should sound at the same time.
2. Sirens be activated by radio control.
3. Each siren should include a battery backup.
Activation of a siren system should be coordinated with the Sheriffs Office.
One manufacturer of outdoor warning systems is Federal Signal Corporation. Mr,
G. M. Thompson is the local representative for Federal. A copy of Mr. Thompsons
response to my inquiry is attached.
The effective range of a siren is 5,200 feet. See the attached map. Cost of the
system is $11,507.25 exclusion of pole and installation.
Some neighboring communities who use Federal sirens are:
RB/co
,7
,7
St. Ivlichael Andover
Albertville St Cloud
Elk River