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06-08-1994 Special Workshop Minutesfile #CC5494.wps CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING OF JUNE 8, 1994 AT 7:30PM MINUTES OF DISCUSSION AGENDA, CITY OF OTSEGO, COUNTY OF WRIGHT, MINNESOTA SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING L MAYOR FRESKE WILL CALL TO ORDER• Mayor Norman F Freske called the Meeting to Order at 7:30. ROLL CALL • NORMAN F FRESKE, MAYOR, RON BLACK, FLOYD RODEN, DOUG LINDENFELSER, AND LARRY FOURNIER, COUNCIL. ELAINE BEATTY, DEPUTY CLERK/ZONING ADM. AND DAVE LICHT, CITY PLANNER WERE PRESENT. Mayor Freske turned the discussion over to David Licht. 2. THIRD INDUSTRIAL PARK: Because of denial, the Council needs to determine what, if anything should be done about another site. The precedent which took place is a concern for David. The residents determining the outcome. He feels that maybe the Third Industrial Site should be dropped at this point. A I-94 and Hwy 101 area may be looked at. He was looking for some comments. Doug Lindenfelser agreed that there are some people concerned about the 3rd Industrial park in the Western part of the City. He felt it was premature at this time. Doug Lindenfelser was talking about West and North of Albertville. David Licht is a firm believer that the North is premature. He explained his position. Albertville has vast amountsof land and sewer and water. It doesn't make sense to leapfrog. It is not to say it will never happen there. West of Albertville there is land for sale. That land offers some advantage, it has some Hwy exposure. Norman F Freske agreed. He felt we are defeating the purpose for what we wanted this Industrial site for. North of I-94 you are talking big bucks again. We don't have water and sewer there, Albertville does. Larry Fournier disagreed with the City Planner in dropping the Third Industrial Site. He would like to see the EDAAC or the P.C. at least look at the question again and see if we have a good site. Larry felt it should be in a rural setting. I agree With Norm, if you put it near Albertville, you are giving them a reason to annex us. Ron Black has mixed emotions. He is inclined to agree with Dave Licht, but not for the same reasons. CITY OF OTSEGO COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF JUNE 8, 1994 AT 7:30PM - PAGE 2 - We have a Comp. Plan that was approved in 1991. We have had people looking at this for three years. It has been said for three years that this is the area we are looking at. The landowner was approached, he was willing, and when a group of neighbors came in they turned the site down. Our documents point to that area. When a person comes in and effectively argue and support what they want to do. I think the sooner we get out of it the better. We have spent too much time and effort on this deal. Floyd Roden agreed with Ron. Let the developer do it. More discussion was had. Norman Freske said if we wait for the person to come in, we need a little control as to where we want that. What if someone comes in and wants an Industrial Park where the City doesn't want it. Floyd Roden said maybe we should just set a site. Larry F said he didn't see any problem with identifying an area. We can plan for it in our plans. If we identify it, it is all out there on the table. Ron felt that is one of the most irritating things. Pg. 101, of Comp plan that very area is under Item B. Why are there all these apologies? This City said from the day it started planning that this area was identified. The people that made this document caved in. Ron felt that this City Council makes this decision. We are the planners, lets get it over with and move on. Norman Freske agreed and talked about Kolles property and land use plan. Larry F agreed that it is good planning to identify the area right away. Ron felt that is imperative. He didn't want to see the next three years going through the same charade as the last three years. The areas should be identified in a large enough way so no one particular person is identified. Larry Fournier said he has had calls that we had better get our act together. We need a place to put these businesses. None of them are Home Extended Businesses. Norm agreed and talked about the rumors out there. Dave Licht commented from a staff prospective. He agrees with Ron and Norm. From a Staff prospective, if someone walked in tomorrow and wanted an area rezoned, I would have a problem telling them to go ahead. He explained further. If that is the pattern the City is going to follow, that is why you have a Comp. Plan, you make those decisions outside of the heat of the issue. There is a critical point that was reached with this. That is that the precedent the City will follow is more of a long range community effort? I think it is almost premature to look at this now. An opportunity has maybe been missed. An interim use landscape operation came in for Darkenwalds. We had a mouthpiece manufacturer come in and wanted a place to move into. We did not have a place to put them. We need to work with LeFebvres and I-94 a little closer. CITY OF OTSEGO COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF JUNE 8, 1994 7:30 - PAGE 3 - Norman Freske said they had a meeting with Darkenwalds, PCA and Atty. and there was some comment that they are ready to work together. Dave said there is land that is non -controversial. Maybe we need to extend a little help. More discussion was had. Further investigation is needed on what is out there, Richard LeFebvre, Darkenwalds, Mary Dare's property, etc. Norman Freske said we had the Chair of the PC and the Chair of the EDAAC. Do you have any comments? Carl Swenson said he came here with the firm conviction he should keep his mouth shut, but he felt the problem with the third Third Industrial Site was that it was recommended, but the Council did not take action. It was never adopted. The Council agreed. The City should make a unambiguous position if they are going to have a Third Industrial Site. The people said they were not told this was planned. Norman Freske said he could contradict six of them. Carl said that one of the things that was missing was the consideration of the pros and cons of the site. Normally that is what Bob Kirmis does. You didn't look at the pros and cons and went on to discuss the report. Maybe we should have listed them. We listened to 45 min of negative comments. Carl felt it was hard to get discussion on the P.C. part. It didn't work to generate discussion. It was not a good Hearing. Dave Licht said the property owners had wished to be heard prior to the opening to the public. They were there and might have made a case for their position. I didn't go through the report, because the report was there. If the commission wanted that it should have been done. One of the things that concerns me is the Commissions reaction is everything is negative. I am not discounting the residents actions. Because all the people showed up did not make it wrong. They reacted to the negative. Ron brought up the landscape place. He wondered to what extent should the City be pursuing or approaching landowners for development. When the landowners are in the business of development, and/or someone the landowners could work with is in the Development. business? Discussion around the Third Industrial site should be used as an example. Discussion was made during the evolution of that project. Is it appropriate for the City making representations? The Community should understand if you come in with a reasonable plan it will be looked at. More discussion was had. Why, when there is a known quantity of land out there, why should the Ctiy be involved until we know what is being asked. David Licht said the interim use for nursery was approved, but withdrawn by the Developer. More discussion was had. You find two types of communities. One who will help someone when they come to us. The other type of community that will go out and say we want development. He noted some of the Cities that actively pursue Development. CITY OF OTSEGO COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF JUNE 8, 1994 AT 7:30PM - PAGE 4 - He talked about groundrules. Unless we are helpful and encouraging, you will loose a lot of development. There is a lot of competition out there. (more discussion) Talk of active participation in development, pursuing it. Ron said It is OK to be very positive, but direct involvement with the Development, that is where I have a problem. Licht said all those things are done in advance with the Development. You have to be able to respond. You have to know the finances, if the City is going to be involved. In Delano they have a Development Corp, an independent body. He explained other cities and what they have. Dave explained further. Ron said he understood now. Norman Freske agreed with Dave, the other Cities have done this for years. We are just getting into it. Now we don't know what the landowners want to do. We should know. Doug felt when Hwy 101 is done some of the problems will be handled by themselves. Floyd Roden said the landowners are interested in doing something. Dave Licht said Mary Dare has the right approach. We are working with the frontage road to define what kind of layout will be done. The depth of Richard LeFebvres and Mary Dare's land is equal to three tiers of lots, not four. He talked about roads. We have some things that we are pursuing. Norman Freske said it will help some of the big stuff , but not the small stuff. Dave felt the City has to be cautious not to get too many irons in the fire. Focus on Hwy 101 and I- 94. When you see what is happening on Mary Dares property you will have a feel for what is going on. We need a consensus as to what is going on. Vern Heidner - Felt this Third Industrial Site was much more painful than his three root canals. We didn't realize how far along the Third Industrial Site was. If you design a Third Industrial Site it should be a big area. I felt that sight would have worked. In 20 years, some of the people will be back looking at us looking to have that zoned Commercial, because of the amount of traffic. He discussed it more. It is a different experience to be in a small committee and all of a sudden there is 100 people setting there. I feel you need a Third Industrial Site that offers some lower cost development. We need an area like that somewhere in the City. More discussion of businesses. Larry Fournier really felt the need is there for a lower cost Third Industrial Site. More discussion of where to put the Third Industrial Site. Larry Fournier suggested a sub -committee of Council to look at the issue. Ron Black felt that is not necessary and explained. He suggested the Council Members sit down and go through the material and come up with recommendations. Larry Fournier supported Ron Black's Idea. Put on Agenda for the next Workshop Meeting. Next Month some time, or August. Date to be determined later. CITY OF OTSEGO COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF JUNE 8, 1994 AT 7:30PM - PAGE 5 - 3. HOME. EXTENDED BUSINESSES: Dave Licht said he wanted the Council to be aware that the Ordinance states that any Home Extended Business,illegal now, is to terminate on January 1, 1994. We have had some come forward. Another person has made contact who has not followed through. We can offer options. Cost to come in was addressed. It was noted they didn't want the residents strong-armed. More discussion was had. Discussion of the businesses being entirely uninsured businesses, so it is not just benefit the City or harassment. If they can't afford to get legal, where else are they cutting corners? Norman Freske said 90% of the citizens in Otsego do what is right, why should the people get buy with not doing it right. What happens is we make rules for 2%. Doug Lindenfelser would sooner see them comply to get them on the tax rolls. Ron said if they can't pay $1,000.00 we should shut them down. They can't afford business. Dave Licht said we would not know about the businesses if nobody complained, and they were not a problem to neighbors. More discussion was had. Larry Fournier said we mentioned the date when these businesses would end. We discussed a way to help these businesses end. Is there a possibility to license these businesses? More discussion. We should write down our policy. Dave Licht will do that. Dave Licht said the standard practice is we don't disclose who is complaining. Until we have a written complaint or call, we don't pursue it. Ron said when Dave mentioned this termination date, the idea was there would be an alternative at that time. I am wondering if we should extend that date. Alternative is not available, I don't like rules on the books that are ignored. Dave Licht said the Ordinance reads, he read what the Ordinance said. Those people knew. Time extensions may be approved by request of the property owner. (he read the Ord.) Dave explained further about time extention. We should have that information in the Newsletter. 4 COMPREHENSIVE PLAN AMENDMENT - IMMEDIATE URBAN SERVICE AREA_EXPANSION: Dave explained we are at a point where we need to add area to the immediate Urban Service Area. He suggested the Council should look at that question. Identify the areas that are left undeveloped. What are the problems? Make contact with property owners saying, what is your intent? We should know intent. If it is concluded that there is a shortage, the next step should be where and when the Urban Area should be extended. He explained the Metro Council and land prices going up so high. CITY OF OTSEGO COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF JUNE 8, 1994 AT 7:30PM - PAGE 6 - More information was discussed. He felt we influence it if we restrict it too much. David Licht met with the Elk River Planner last week. There is a demand. Have the City make the contact.(City office, with Licht's help). u -' uu ; - /16.1 In the Hwy 101 area there is one developed piece of semi-public property and one undeveloped. Concerning semi -pub property, the question is Comm. areas is not for Commercial not public or semi-public activities. They are dollars ahead for what it is proposed to be rezoned. Another facility, Christ Lutheran Church rezoned to INS. our office supported the rezoning because it was there. The question then comes up in numbers to fairly substantial land, 15 acres total. The concern David Licht has is it is not complementary to Commercial type use. A semi -Public use doesn't contribute to that. You want something on the corner saying I'm a Commercial Area. The owner is trying to have the flood plain removed from that area. David Licht has contacted the Church with the professional opinion that it may be a problem for expansion. How much would be allowed? More explanation was given by Dave Licht. He anticipates an expansion request. He requested them to come on an informal basis to a formal meeting of the Council. Ron Black talked to the pastor of the church. Ron said the particular use they were proposing fit in. Comment was we are expanding, the place is growing, we need more space. Ron said he felt it was hard to believe that 5 acres was not enough. He explained further. That area may eventually have public sewer and water. 15 acres of assessment would be a problem. Some discussion of the VFW was had. Council agreed that it made sense. Ron Black had a question on the corner lot across from the Bank property, owned by the curch. If this can be, we should take the affirmative move on Rezoning. It is zoned A-1 now. 6. ECONOMIC DEVELOPMENT: Dave suggested that the property owners should be contacted and maybe find out what their plans are. Someone should contact those people. EDA could address. When this goes on they will know what they want.. Floyd felt within the next month or two they will know more. Within the next month or 6 weeks a meeting should be set up. Ron felt the EDAAC should be making the initial contact with landowners on Hwy 101. Development along I-94 is from Mpls to St Cloud. At this point it would Surprise me that the development that we are looking for would hit Otsego, or Albertville, before we see action on Hwy 101. He explained further. The demand is not beyond Maple Grove now. More discussion. CITY OF OTSEGO COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF JUNE 8, 1994 AT 7:30 PM PAGE -7- LARRY FOURNIER MOTIONED, RON BLACK SECONDED TO GIVE THE TASK OF MEETING WITH THE LANDOWNERS ON Hwy101 TO THE EDAAC. ALL AGREED Dave Licht said communication with them is important. Richard LeFebvre is working with an engineering firm. A. HIGHWAY 101 AREA: B. I-94 AREA: 7 ANY OTHER COUNCIL BUSINESS: Dave Licht brought up Kessler PUD, we handled it because the County had rezoned. We put it on a PUD, which was the same as the County had. Dave discussed further. He is proposing to tell them they would have to come in with an amended PUD to have horses. He is allowed horses on a 5 acre lot. The point is you want some control. Larry Fournier brought up the way our city staff would be organized in the future. He would like to set a date to have that meeting. Every Council Member should come to that meeting with their suggestions. LARRY FOURNIER MOTIONED, DOUG LINDENFELSER SECONDED TO HAVE A WORKSHOP AT 7:30PM ON JULY 7,1994 TO HAVE A DISCUSSION OF ADMINISTRATIVE STAFF. ALL AGREED. 8. ADJOURN MEETING: MOTIONED BY FLOYD RODEN, SECONDED BY LARRY FOURNIER. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. NO 4 R`FRESKE, MAYOR FL Y DEN, COUNCIL DOU LI LARRY RON LACK ATTEST: I.► &Age OUNCIL LANE BEATTY, DEPUTY C ERK/ ZONING ADM. (CITY SEAL)" 1 ENFELS COUNCIL R, COUNCIL