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11-03-1994 Special Workshop MinutesCC-NOV94.WPS CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL ENGINEERING WORKSHOP MEETING OF NOVEMBER 3, 1994, 7:30PM IN THE CITY OF OTSEGO, WRIGHT COUNTY MINNESOTA. SPECIAL ENGINEERING WORKSHOP 11-3-94 - 7:30PM 1. MAYOR NORMAN F FRESKE WILL CALL MEETING TO ORDER: Mayor Norman F Freske called the meeting to order at 7:30PM ROLL CALL: NORMAN F FRESKE, MAYOR, LARRY FOURNIER, RON BLACK, DOUG LINDENFELSER AND FLOYD RODEN, COUNCIL WERE PRESENT. ELAINE BEATTY, DEPUTY CLERK/ZONING ADMINISTRATOR AND JUDY HUDSON, SECRETARY WERE ALSO PRESENT. JOHN HARWOOD AND LARRY KOSHAK, ENGINEERS WERE PRESENT. Mayor Freske turned the meeting over to Larry Koshak and John Harwood. 2. REVIEW AGENDA AND ANY ADDITIONS: no review 3. PRESENTATION OF SURFACE WATER DRAINAGE PLAN FOR THE URBAN SEWER AREA BY LARRY KOSHAK AND JOHN HARWOOD, ENGRS. Larry Koshak said he would provide information on stormwater management and John Harwood will give us information on watershed areas. Larry Koshak showed the overheads which related to stormwater management. He talked about intergration of the stormwater management plan with other plans for the community. Two distinct systems exist in every community, minor and major. Stormwater should be regarded as a resource, not an enemy. Encourage designs as a natural topography rather than obliterating the natural features. Encourage equitable sharing of the systems. He showed the elements of a balanced storm drainage program. Larry talked of financing options, bonds, general obligation, council or public vote, revenue bonds, local improvement district, special districts, utility service charges and system development of charges. He showed a brochure from Apple Valley on stormwater drainage. Utility service charge can be determined by impervious surface, rational method, or flat fee. Average is $3.00 per month for ESU for each Residential Unit. Adjustments can be made based on site retention, public lands, direct discharge to receiving waters, senior citizens, Ag or open space. CITY OF OTSEGO WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 3, 1994 AT 7:30PM PAGE 2 Larry Koshak showed an Ordinance by the City of Apple Valley under Statute of Minnesota # 444. There are two kinds of Ordinances, an enabling ordianance or encompassing ordinance, which would cover all those things. He had a chart of external impacts on the Stormwater Ordinance. PCA has jurisdiction in Minnnesota. Rate structure was shown with classifications. Home operated businesses may be charged for two units. Part of the program is treating the stormwater runoff. Larry Fournier asked when setting up different watershed districts are the costs different? Larry Koshak said in Urban Service Area we would probably use one rate for all. In the rural area, you may use another amount. Mike LuConic asked what kind of treatment would we be talking about? Artificial arterials or elevation drops. Retention ponds, sediment and design of ponds to be cleaned using swales and grass to run the water over,(special grasses like cattails, canary grass, etc.) The natural way is the best way. Ron Black asked if a County road goes through a City, does the County pay fees? Answer some states require the County and State to pay. Larry Koshak talked about using the impervious surface method. HAIJ,S WATERSHED AREA John Harwood gave a presentation: Otsego Watersheds A taxing district for Otsego Creek had been previously identified with a defined district for each of the major watersheds. John showed maps of the watersheds in surrounding areas. Halls Watershed is a large district with six seperate districts. John outlined the general patterns of flow. John also covered the major storage and ponding areas to the S. Dist 1: The Northwest corner of the area A-1 subdistrict has quite a bit of storage. There is not a lot of outflow. N of the wetlad area has quite a bit of runoff with high water occasionally. N of it is higher ground. It runs East to Halls Pond area. Dist 2: S of the first district is mostly undeveloped, it is a large wetland area. Most is undeveloped W of Nashua. The outlet is to the E towards Halls Pond. One recommendation is to initiate measures to construct a stormwater outlet. It would be beneficial to the entire system to get this water to Otsego Creek thru a pipe. We have enough data to prepare the report or study necessary to approach the regulatory agencies. CITY OF OTSEGO WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 3, 1994 AT 7:30PM PAGE 3 We have identified some of the problems and some of the rational to take this to Otsego Creek. $120,000.00 is the approximate cost. There is a funding source if there is development. As a trunk outlet it would be more difficult to fund. The 2,900 lineal feet of 24" pipe. The pipe would run down Nashua Avenue, or thru the land to Nashua Avenue. The goal is to take the water out of the impact area downstream. This would be a long term benefit. We could put together a package to request approval. Larry Koshak said we are talking about taking the water down to one and a half feet above the ordinary high water mark. It is debatable if this is landlocked. We have enough data downstream to make a case. The price is fairly generic. We have not pinpointed any design decision yet. There is about 8' drop betwee the LuConics Pond and Otsego creek wetland. Larry Fournier asked if the dotted line could represent an open ditch. John Harwood said temporarily, but not long term. It would consume a lot of land and is expensive. He talked about the small system to the N that is a flood protection level of service and is a private system. Dist 3: Walesch Estates Addition, has a large ponding area. It has an upstream wetland and there is a lack of storage in this area. Pond has adequate capacity. Outlet is Northerly. Ag land to 85th Street. Recommendation is for a pipe system thru the backyard low areas and requirement of a storm pond on the Ag Land. They are recommending a system from a point directly to Halls Pond. There are two systems recommended. Floyd talked about extending the line to the private system line in the horseshoe area. John Harwood said it is possible. Taking it out of the Halls watershed would be the perferred route. Dist 4: W of Halls Pond Dist 2, surface water he explained how the system would work. Coming from Halls pond and picking up the low areas. Cost data $145,000.00 and increased storage area at Halls Pond. Increased storage $90,000.00 to $235,000.00 total. John talked about the added flow and the cost. Larry Fournier said there are a lot of pipes heading towards Halls Pond, will it handle the additional water? John Harwood said the goal is ponding upstream to minimize the flow rate. The more ponding, the less amount of pipe we have to put in. CITY OF OTSEGO WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 3, 1994 AT 7:30 PM PAGE 4 Steve Wiltermuth questioned the 4-D, O'brian Avenue has impeded the flow. He does not see anything that would enhance the flow or move it to a ponding area. John Harwood said the topo maps indicate the drainage is to the NE, not SE. Mr. Wiltermuth said there is water crossing O'brian Avenue now. Is there anything in the plan that would take care of that? John Harwood said we are defining overall solutions. Construction of a culvert to drain this area can be done. He talked about local drainage, groundwater influence and adopting some policies. Get strormwater districts established, then apply the policies for funding. Drainage areas and general criteria are defined. One key factor in funding is developing policies. Doug Lindenfelser asked about the elevation of the LuConics area and the pond by Obrian. We have water crossing O'brian Avenue. Larry Koshak said one of the sources is the overflow. More discussion of water and how it runs. Vern Heidner talked about part of the problem by O'brian Avenue is LuConics overflow. More discussion. O'brian Avenue and 90th Street details should be in the feasibility study and whether it is economical. John Harwood will show how the ground lies along the area by Obrian. We can't drain present wetlands/DNR controls that. Dist 5: Around Halls Pond Area. Adjacent to the Halls pond is pretty much self contained to SE Dist 6: Current pipe outlet was shown, James Add, and the Plude Area. On Nashua Ave the recommendation is to initiate the process to do the project, Public Hearing and feasibility for it. We should first talk about a policy for assessment, etc. The City Attorney will give an opinion to the Council on the petition received. CITY OF OTSEGO WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 3, 1994 AT 7:30 PM PAGE 5 B. LE FEBVRES WATERSHED AREA: John showed 8 district divisions. The trunk drainage system was shown. This watershed is very much driven by the existing creek and wetland complex, a valuable resource. John talked about a large wetland and large wetland complex. All the same elevation. It stretches back into some of the developed areas. This is a lot of storage retention. The elevation can not be changed and the problem cannot be solved by stormwater drainage. To try to replace that system with a pipe would cost a lot of money. Each of the 8 subdistricts, 1-A and 1-I are self contained with very little outflow. Dist 2 - The rest of the district is high ground with some very flat. Groundwater is contributed to the LeFebvres watershed. Some is Ag land, some is wetland. Dist 3 -Is a relatively small district with a fairly large wetland area. There is substantial grade difference. Currently there is a problem, the outlet flow should be to the trunk system, but there is no culvert on Ogren. Dist 4 - Country Ridge Estates has been developed with internal drainage. It is anticipated that the other districts will develop in a similar fashion. Dist 5 - On the other side of Co 42 to the East. The source of quite a bit of evaluation. There has been a lot of planning as far as transportation routes in this area. A Policy and costs need to be set. Dist 6 - S of Co 42, is the new school site with ponding and outlet to the existing creek. (controlled structure) We are matching the flow rates of that culvert. It can be accomplished with the ponding that is available upstream. Flow -rates and capacities need to be maintained by ponding. It should be fairly easy to do with large wetlands in Dist 7. Dist 8 - The central area throughout the LeFebvre Watershed. It is a large complex essentially at the same elevation, a1/2 a foot difference in elevation. Information will be presented as a master plan to guide future development. Mayor Freske asked if a recommendation will be given at the next Council Meeting? Larry Koshak said they will put a resolution together to act on the feasibility report for the next council meeting. The moratorium on Lefebvre Watershed was discussed. At the next Council Meeting a recommendation to release all the district in the LeFebvre Watershed Districts except 4 - 5. We recommend there be a fee established for development for stormwater improvement. These improvements need to be done prior to development in those district. The issue of the Kolles Farm needs to be addressed for drainage. Last November John expressed those costs. In the next phase we should be able to start developing the policies. Larry Fournier said in reference to the project, with the petition, he felt it was important to work on the funding. CITY OF OTSEGO WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 3, 1994 AT 7:30 PM PAGE 6 Vern Heidner asked about the pipe going to Otsego Creek and asked what district would that be. Larry Koshak said we would have to evaluate who benefits. Rod Bengston - 89th Street NE - Asked about the petition that was brought in April. He would like to review it. His name was on the original one. Norman F Freske thanked John Harwood and Larry Koshak for their work. We are trying to do it right. Ron Black asked Larry Koshak when he would anticipate being able to talk about payment schemes? Would it be appropriate to set another special meeting? Larry Koshak would recommend a series of workshops to talk policy and money. Each of these issues take a lot of time. Stormwater drainage is a sensitive issue and difficult to assess. We need two weeks to finish this. John Harwood said they would like to get some policies in place. It is difficult to finance. NOVEMBER 28, 1994 SET FOR NEXT WORKSHOP AT 6:30PM BEFORE REGULAR COUNCIL MEETING. A FIVE MINUTE BREAK WAS TAKEN C. REVIEW ANY OTHER WATERSHEDS: Discussion of Rice Lake area Watershed 4. DISCUSSION OF ENGINEERING CONTRACT AND SERVICES: The Council reviewed paperwork Larry Koshak made available to the Council. A summary of the Engineering fees for 93-94. The first part shows reimbursable items. Larry explained the material. The contract has remained the same as it has for a number of years. His maximum fee is $62.50. They do not charge for mileage. He explained the services and contract. More discussion was had. Discussion of budget. Larry suggested mining fees should be dedicated - MSA - surplus goes to MSA Fund. More discussion by the Council and Larry Koshak. Doug told Larry it has been nice working with him. 5. ANY OTHER WORKSHOP BUSINESS: Dan Lais from DNR wants to look at Pouliots area and would like to go over it with the Creek Authority 1:30 on 11/10/94. Larry Fournier brought up annexation. He talked to Gary Meyer. CITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL ENGINEERING WORKSHOP MEETING MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 3,1994 PAGE 7 6. ADJOURN: FLOYD RODEN MOTIONED TO ADJOURN, DOUG LINDENFELSER SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. -F-FRESKE, MAYOR y er? ►1-rg Or •t f BLACK, COUNCIL ATTEST: ELAINE BEATTY, DEPUTY CLERK/ZONING FLO 2-1 INDENFELSE R, COUNCIL URNIER, COUNCIL EB