Snowmobile Committee Minutes January 19, 2001January 19, 2001 -Snowmobile Ordinance Meeting
The meeting started with Vern providing details to the attendees regarding:
the population of Otsego, budget for police, hours of deputy service, other
citizen committees, and results of those committees.
Vern then asked for nominees for a chairperson and a secretary to take
notes.
• Ron Zackman was named chairperson
• Sharon Carter was named secretary
Minutes of the meeting
Question (Ron Z) -What is platted?
Response (Milce/Vern) -developed area/residential. Some areas with larger
parcels are platted (5 to 20 acres), although normally residents do not think
so.
• Mike recently wrote an article regarding "platted" for the city's
newsletter.
Suggestion was made: Change the term "platted" to some other term.
Question regarding section 8-1-8 of the current ordinance -
when a new development has curb and gutter, where should snowmobilers
ride?
Response - On the right hand portion of the street.
Question -The easement seems to vary by location, how do you know what
the easement is?
Response -the city engineer can tell you what the easement is.
Concern (Ron Long) -there are new homes being built on less than 1/a acre -
if asnowmobile can go over the easement, their lawn will be a mess.
Comment (Jay) - it is his right to ride his snowmobile in the ditch.
Comments (Ron Z) - It is a privilege that allows snowmobiles to ride on the
right of ways, not a right. Anytime there is a liscence involved, it is a
privilege because a liscence can be revoked.
Comment ( .) - The city could revoke this privilege on city right of ways, but
not county road right of ways.
Discussion regarding snowmobile studs:
Question (Ron Z) -what happends to the fees collected for studs? Isn't the
city reinbursed for damage done to streets and trails?
Response (Jay) -The ban on studs was repealed because the DNR did not
go the proper route to get studs banned. There is a $13.00 stud fee (for a
sticker). The "kitty" containing this fee money is used to repair trails. The
state says they cannot drive on blacktop trails.
Question (Chip) -Why is there a difference between driving on trails and
driving on driveways? This "kitty" should also be used for driveway repair.
Response (Vern) -the city is not reinbursed for damage to the streets. -The
reinbursement is only for damage to trails. From the city's perspective,
more damage is done to the streets by other means, such as garbage trucks.
Question -how many snowmobiles have studs? Response from Jay - 30
to 50 %.
Question (Ron Z) -Is it feasible to have a ban on studs in platted areas?
Response - ?
Discussion regarding Trai18A
Question -after they cross the bridge on Parrish, where do they go?
Response (Tom C) -they can cut through Main St (Elk River) and go by the
power plant. It is a legal trail, although not a good place to cross.
(2)
Concern (Paul) - years ago with less traffic, it wasn't a problem (the Parrish
crossing), now with the volume of snowmobile traffic, it is a problem.
Question (Tom Carter) -Since we have been told Trail 8A will be routed to
the new 101 bridge (instead of using the Parrish bridge), is anyone working
with the DOT on the 101 bridge project?
Response (Mike) -it's not an official trail, but we will set it up with a
crossing.
Response (Tom C) -when the bridge is done, the trail will be re-routed.
Suggestion (Ron Z) -for trail 8A, how about having a place to park trailers
near the bank and they can catch the trail there 0
Response (lVlilce) - we have no jurisdiction over county roads.
Question (Ron Z) -what do they do about riding on county roads in other
cities.
Response (Mike) -they can ride on county roads.
Other people in the meeting disagreed -snowmobiles cannot ride on county
roads in all other cities (,example Mpls).
Concern (Gerard) - we must address disregard of private property. I=1e has
238 acres of farmland. He puts signs out and bails of hay on his property.
The signs are taken, his fields damaged. He is concerned about his back
fields are going to look like - there are hills/lake. This is his livelihood.
Question (Ron Z) - it is illegal to trespass and against the current
snowmobile ordinance. Is there something the snowmobile -club can do
about this?
Response -there is nothing we can do.
Question (Ron Z) -what about snow officers?
(3)
Response (Sheriff s deputy) - they couldn't write tickets or attempt to get
their (trespassers) names.
Suggestion (Tom Carter) -the current DNR book says the city can impose
further restrictions.
Response (Vern) -The State Statutes overrule the DNR rules. The State
Statutes are what count.
Question (Tom Carter) -how new is your copy of the State Statutes?
Comment/Question (Chip) - He called the DNR and they said the city can
impose fines.
Response (Vern)- we should check this out with the city attorney.
Concern (Tom ?) -there is quite a bit of damage along hwy 101, they are
running over thousands of dollars of shrubbery. We need to find a solution.
Suggestions:
• If you -can't fire a fire arms in an area, you can't -drive a snowmobile.
• You need to keep snowmobiles on a trail, trailer the snowmobiles to the
trail.
• Find a farmer near a trail and a place for par -king - a place to -drive the
sleds to.
Concern (Nikki) - if you ban snowmobiling in Otsego, she is screwed. She
moved to Otsego 27 years ago. She can snowmobile from her home. If
there was a ban, there would be no reason for a snowmobile club. We have
to educate people.
Comment (Tom?) -the problem is here/exists. If there is an area you can't
shoot guns, you shouldn't be able to snowmobile.
Comment (Carol) - if a gun is discharged, someone might get killed. Tf
there are properly run snowmobiles, no one gets killed. You can't compare
guns to snowmobiles.
(4)
Comment (Joanne) - if the problem is transporting, people should buy a
trailer.
• Suggestion - if they are going to snowmobile in Otsego, they should
have a certificate indicating the shortest distance to get to a trail -and
have the certificate on them. Note - a copy of the certificate used by
Champlin was passed around.
Comment/suggestion (Mike) - we need to deal with the possible versus
improbable. Perhaps the city hall would be a good place to drop off sleds
and get to a trail.
Response (Jay) - we would work with the city on a "park &ride"
Comment (Paul) - as long as snowmobiles exist, the problem won't go
away.
Suggestion (Ron Long) - if the city has a law in a residential area that a sled
can't be driven within 300 feet of a residence - it would be easy to enforce.
Question (Ron .�.) - it is unclear to the 300 feet -what about houses back to
back?
Concern/question (Neil) - if I buy a snowmobile and I have a fenced yard -
why can't I drive my snowmobile in my yard?
Concern (?) -deputy that came to their house said they can't enforce the
snowmobile ordinance because the city won't back them up. Deputy says
there is nothing they can do.
Reponse (Deputy) - if we get their snowmobile registration number, we can
talk to them0 VUe do 5ive tickets.
Response (Vern)
• Officers hours are increased from 12 to 14 hours per day. This will add
1 to 1 1/2 deputies because of the increased time.
• We should have 1 officer for every 1000 people. Otsego is 4 people
short.
• To explain the cost -Ells River is 2 times our size and they are paying 3
times our entire budget just for their police department.
Question (Paul) -what about using snowmobile deputies (on sleds)?
Response from the deputy -their hours are 8:00 to 4:30, they go out when
they can.
Comment (Vern) - if the deputies spent a week writing a 100 tickets, we
wouldn't have a problem. If we were able to target enforcement after a
major snowfall, the problem would decrease (but other cities would also
want the snowmobile patrol during the "peals" snowmobile times).
To summarize where the meeting is at this point (Vern) -
• We need -enforcement of rules
• The rules seem unenforceable
• Snowmobile Club knows they need to educate.
• People are frustrated.
Question -does the city have money in the budget to notify residents of the
ordinance?
Response -they put it in the newsletter. They have talked to the Star News.
Suggestion (Ron Z) -what about sending out the ordinances and publish the
fines more than once a year. Let's mail to everyone.
Suggestion (1VIike) - we need a modified ordinance. We could mail to
everyone.
(6)
Question (Jay) - are we going to re -write or clarify the snowmobile
ordinance, or our efforts just input into an ordinance the council
implements?
Response (Vern) -the original ordinance - a citizen's group put something
together using another cities ordinance, a presentation was made to the city
council. They approved the ordinance and implemented it.
Question (Ron) - to the snowmobile club -what is the long range plans for
training, working with the city, putting up signs?
Response (Jay) -the signs are provided by the state, he and his wife provide
youth training.
Question - we need to see a map of the platted areas.
Response (Mike) - he will bring a map to the next meeting.
Comment (Vern) - we need to define boundaries.
Suggestion -adjourn the meeting as it was getting late.
Suggestion (Tom ?) - at the next meeting, perhaps each person should write
down the top item they want to occur as a result of these meetings.
Suggestion - we use white board or flip chart at the next meeting.
Suggestionbegin to develop a proposal for the City Council.
Meeting adjorned.