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Citizen Committee- Snowmobile February 8, 2001Citizen Committee Otsego Snowmobile Ordinance Meeting - February 8, 2001 Ron Zaclunan started the meeting by determining who, in attendance, was present at the first meeting of the citizen's conunittee. Ron had talked with the mayor and determined that only the people who attended the originating meeting have a voice in decisions being made by this committee. A discussion occurred around who should be on the citizen's committee. Not everyone was in agreement on the purpose of the meetings. Vern - the intent is to get enough different opinions from various people. Question (Ron Z) - how can we rewrite the ordinance when we haven't solved a single problem? Response (?) - we need a place to start and snake the rules clear. Response (Nikki) - the current ordinance was not written very well and is difficult understand. Mike - We need to focus on the education aspect and law enforcement aspect. Comment (Sharon) - this week, we have seen more situations of breaking the current law than I can count on my fingers. Many of the incidents involved kids under 14 who had their "snowmobile safety certificate" with them. If they are breaking the rules after attending the safety training, I don't see how additional education will make a big difference. We have "NO SNOWMOBILING" signs and have had people drive past them into our yard. If they can't read a sign, they aren't going to read a new ordinance. These incidents occurred after the article on the "rules" for snowmobiling came out in the Otsego City Newsletter . Officer Lisa - She will be on snow patrol in Otsego 1:00 - 5:00, Friday. Suggestion (Mike) - it is also possible part time deputies (recent graduates) may be available to patrol targeted areas (Parrish and others). He will see if Sheriff feels this will work. Targeted enforcement should help - in particular the first snowfall or after the week during Xmas break. Officer Lisa - to be effective the patrol should be on a sled. Comment (Ron T) - we still have a serious problem in the residential areas. Any place with 3 -5 houses on an acre, we are going to have a serious problem. They should ride their sleds on the road - they can't get around culverts. They think they have the right to go into yards to get around the culverts and kids are playing. Someone will get seriously hurt. They also ride on Utility Easements where are heavy packed down trails. Question (?) - there won't be culverts in the new developments? Response (Mike) - correct. Question (Nikki) - Let me make sure I understand why we are here , we make recommendations that go to the City Council. Question to Officer Lisa (Sharon) - Does the Snow Officers patrol other then during the day? Response (Officer Lisa) - officers are out at all hours. Some officers were out late (1:00 AM to 3:00 am). Ron Zaclunan - distributed to the committee, a "Permission To Trespass Form - City of Otsego. This is an example of what could be used to ensure snowmobilers have permission to be on private land (example would be farms). This would assist officers, when they stop someone to know if they are trespassing. Paul - There will be nothing growing by the levy, trees & plants are being destroyed, Snowmobiles are driving where there are no trespassing signs - and nothing is being done, Question (Tom C) - does anyone have a solution to solve this problem? Response (Carol) - Parental guidance - enforcement. Vern - the people along Parrish live with a lot of problems. In the summer Boom boxes, etc. We can target this area for the Recreation Officers to patrol. Suggestion (?) Possibly put up signs" PLEASE STAY ON THE TRAILS OR WE MAY LOSE OUR PRIVILEGES! This may help to keep people on the trails. Comment (Carol) - every year, we check with the landowners to make sure we can still have the trail on their property. Suggestion (?) can the determination be made during the planning phases of new housing developments if the area could be a possible place to snowmobile/place a trail. Try to avoid homes. Response (Mike) - good idea, Comment (Ron Tong) - We don't seem to be getting anything done. He has heard people discussing banning snowmobiles from certain areas. Rather than ban, have them drive on the far right side of the road (not the ditches). Maybe, we need to start drawing up rules and regulation, like the no gun law. Response (Mike) - the City Attorney said the riles for city streets we can be stricter, but we have no juristiction over County Roads or State Roads. Comment (Clip) - I have read and re -read the State Statutes and cannot find where it states they can ride in the ditches on County Roads. Ron Zaclunan - Mason to 37 - if that area had a b�ul on snowmobiling would it include the county roads? Mike - I made a note to check with the City Attorney. Question (Ron Z.) - I believe it would be easier to enforce an ordinance if there was a total ban. From a police officers point of view would this be easier? Response (Officer Lisa) - it would take a while to get something like that going. Comment (Carol) - a ban is a radical move. This is the first committee to address this issue. She opposed to a total ban. Comment (?) - he doesn't feel the radical way is the way to go - there are more Sheriff's sleds to enforce an ordinance. Let's see what happens. Hand out tickets. People don't even know there are ordinances. Try improving the ordinance and educate the people, first, before considering a ban. Comment (?) - a few years ago she didn't know there were ordinances. Mail them out. Give it a try, with the enforcement. Comment (Officer Lisa) - keep in mind, we don't cover just Otsego. It is big County. We are doing the best we can. Question (Kevin) - do we want to pay out more money to pay money out to have additional officers? Mike - they may mail the newsletter as an additional mailer. There will be an additional cost. Response (Vern) - throughout the year, we pay year round for 2 extra hours of patrol time, although we may not need it, There is a possibility we could "bank" the hours and use them in the winter for "snow patrol". Question (Vern) - to Lisa - is there something special about the officers sleds? Response (Lisa) - they have a light - they aren't real expensive. Vern - maybe we could have one or two snowmobiles in Otsego, rather than haul their snowmobiles from Buffalo. Vern - I have made a list of recommendations/ideas so far - • Signal at entrance to the Ctiy Parrish 101, Cty 19, 80 Street, • Rewrite of current ordnance • Copy of fines • Map of official trails • Officers at the Elementary school • Snowmobile club check points • Re-route some trails • More specialized patrols • Nuisance noise • Certificate of the most direct route to an official trail • Hours of snowmobiling Officer Lisa -the reserves can assist, but cannot write tickets (one reserve and one officer together). Question (Ron T) - would it be possible to have the snowmobiles ride on the right side of the road? Response (?) - some streets it would be work, some it wouldn't because they are narrow. Suggestion (Nikki) - maybe we can recommend in the newer areas, heavier populated have sleds ride on right side of the street. Streets that don't have curbs, ride in the ditch. Offer of help (?) - offer was made to use trick or trailer to haul the officers sleds from Buffalo, rather than have the officers spend hours on their sleds to get to Otsego. Carol - if people are going the speed limit, kids aren't going to get hurt. Question (Jerry) - what are the fines people would get? Response (Officer Lisa) - the fines are pretty high. Response - Vern read out loud, the fines effective in Elk River. He pointed out these were probably set by judges in Sherburne County and indicated the same sort of thing could be done by Wright County. The City wouldn't have a problem attaching a copy of fines when the ordinance is mailed out. Suggestion (Clip) - we should include ATVs for whatever we come up with for snowmobiles. Between ATVs and snowmobiles - people aren't going to put up with any more. Response (Vern) - the current ordinance states ATVs cannot ride in the City. Response (Carol) - the snowmobile club must get approval to put a trail across farmlands. It would be an issue to have a trail (for ATVs) going through farmlands in the summer. Response (Tom C) - it is in the current ordinance, they can't ride in the ditch. Recommendation (Ron) - it has been a recommendation that any place there is a curb, they ride in the street. Recommendation (Vern) - where there is no curb, the recommendation would be they ride in the ditch. Question (?) - can reserve people take down license numbers? Suggestion (Sharon) - the City of Afton's ordinance requires an orange flag attached to the snowmobile when they are riding on streets. It makes them easier to see/safer. Response (Tom Constance) - the outfits snowmobilers wear are bright, better than flags to notice. Comment (Ron Z) - Utility Easement should be addressed. Man by Paul - in problem areas could that be something the City could come up with to create less hassle? Suggestion (Chip) - on Parrish - why couldn't they ride in the parking lane? Comment (?) - shocked by sidewalk used by snowmobiles by school in the city, Lisa - we are going to focus on the streets off the trails. Tom C- renegades are out there all hours of the night, Ron - recommendation to change hours. Vern - suggestion to change to the hours of snowmobiling. Question (Vern to Officer Lisa) - do you have equipment to check out sound? Response (Lisa) - no. Recommendation (Carol) - we could have signs posted with the speed limit. Comment (?) - driving 10 miles per hour is difficult. Recommendation (Nikki) - if we are going to ride on right hand side of road, ask the snowplow drivers not to plow the road entirely. Response (Vern) - maybe there is something we can do, leave some snow on the road. Comment (7) - the ditches should be cleaned up and make it safer for snowmobilers. Continent - Wright County won't put up signs for "adopt a highway". Meeting Closure Ron Zaclunan -thank you all. It was more civil than the first night. We won't get any changes in the ordinance for this year. Vern - because of the amount of time it takes, we would be into the middle of March before a new ordinance could be approved. Ron - it will take more time than just tonight. We have discussed banning on streets with curbs or sidewalks. It is a start. We don't want to go in with an ordinance that doesn't meet the needs of the community, only to start over again next year. Vern - we may want to come up with areas of the city where the population will be dense. Take a look at two different definitions of curbed areas. Possibly find a spot in the City to trailer snowmobiles and park. For future meetings - • If a snow situation and meeting is canceled, they will call everyone on the list. • If you don't attend a meeting, be sure to check with the city or another attendee to be sure a meeting will be held the next week. Next meeting will be Thursday night (215) /at 7:00. Next week's Agenda -Vern will have copies of the recommendations that have come out of the 3 meetings, The committee will go through each recommendation and hopefully come to conclusive recommnendations that can be presented to the City Council.