Charles Norris1
Sabrina Hille
From:Jessica Stockamp
Sent:Thursday, September 19, 2024 10:38 AM
To:Sabrina Hille; Dan Licht; Daryl Rausch
Subject:Fwd: EDA meeting/Fire Station
Mayor Jessica Stockamp
City of Otsego
612-720-2956
JStockamp@ci.otsego.mn.us
Begin forwarded message:
From: Charles Norris <charlesrnorris@gmail.com>
Date: September 19, 2024 at 9:36:44 AM CDT
To: Charles Norris <charlesrnorris@gmail.com>
Cc: Tina Goede <TGoede@ci.otsego.mn.us>, Brittany Moores
<BMoores@ci.otsego.mn.us>, Jessica Stockamp <JStockamp@ci.otsego.mn.us>, Jeff
Dahl <JDahl@ci.otsego.mn.us>
Subject: Re: EDA meeting/Fire Station
Good morning -
Just wanted to follow up on my previous email. Over the last 2 days I have reached out to
over 1000 people in the fire industry across the country via email. These include the NAFP,
State of MN, DHS, Fire Chiefs, every member of the Minnesota State Fire Fighters
association board of directors, and others. I've heard back from quite a few of them via
email and over the phone. Monday I will share my story and how it relates to both NFIRS
and NFPA 1720 guidelines. I have been able to determine that the response to my fire,
100% did not meet either of the standards associated with those, regardless of what Mr
Dunlap believes and continues to communicate to the community on Facebook. The fire
lieutenant that arrived 8 minutes and 45 seconds after dispatch does not qualify as a
response and should not be counted in the response time. I would like to speak first, and
will speak civilly the entire time. I will be there to share exact quotes, facts, numbers, etc...
Recently Mr Dunlap has been sharing the Albertville fire departments response time in
relation to my fire to try and justify a response time in under 10 min. He's posting their log
which shows an alarm time of 19:53 (7:53 pm) and arrival time of 20:02 (8:02 pm). Elk River
was paged at 7:44 pm from a 911 call at 7:41 pm. Albertville came within 9 minutes of
being paged, but 9 minutes after Elk River had already been paged.
Again, I misspoke once and said 30 min instead of 20 in a Facebook post. I deleted that,
acknowledged it, and apologized for it. What is 20 min again - It's approximately the
amount of time from when we called 911 to when the fire fighters entered the garage. I will
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use exact times when I communicate my experience at the meeting Monday night, no
approximations.
Below is an exact quote from one of the fire chiefs, who's reply talked about the response
time as being the first arriving apparatus. I replied back asking for clarification on
apparatus, and if the fire LT that showed up to my house 8 minutes and 45 seconds after
dispatch qualified as such.
"Thanks for responding so quickly. When I say apparatus, it’s not only a vehicle with water
and pump, it also includes tools to help with a job such as saws, axes, pry bars, etc. A
person in a personal vehicle with just an extinguisher doesn’t qualify a such . I’m using
NFIRS definitions as that is what I believe would be acceptable in any discussion on the
matter. When a fire department is dispatched to an incident, it is expected, if not
demanded, that the department arrive with whatever it takes to get the job done. It may
only take a fire extinguisher but the rest of the tools are available if the extinguisher proves
to be insufficient. In our case, we have three primary response vehicles, engine, tender
and heavy rescue. We have 4800 gallons of water on the engine and tender and the tools
for the job, SCBA, extinguishers, axes, pry bars, chain saws, K-12s, exhaust fans, foam,
chimney tools, ladders, etc. plus high angle rescue equipment, water rescue equipment,
extrication tools, stabilization equipment and the list goes on. That is my definition of
apparatus and meets the requirements for department liability. So no, a person with an
extinguisher does not qualify as an apparatus."
Thank you,
Charles Norris
612-227-2281
On Tue, Sep 17, 2024 at 11:36 AM Charles Norris <charlesrnorris@gmail.com> wrote:
Good morning -
I've been going back and forth on this on FB with one of you and this is not helping at all. In
full transparency, one time I misspoke on FB and said fire suppression was 30 min instead
of 20 min. I have admitted that was a mistake and deleted the post that indicated that.
I am in support of the fire department and would like to speak on Monday night. I will
mention the above, and walk through the first page of the fire report. The 2nd and 3rd
have names of firefighters and that can't be shared with the general public.
If we are to use the NFPA 1720 standards, the response time to my fire fails
that. According to their tables/guidelines, a minimum staff of 10 needs to be at the fire
within 10 minutes. So what am I missing? How does 1 person that arrives in their truck
satisfy the requirement of 10 firefighters being here within 10 min?
Thank you,
Charles Norris
612-227-2281
3
On Mon, Jul 22, 2024 at 10:47 AM Gina Norris <ginamarienorris@gmail.com> wrote:
Good morning Mayor and Council Members,
My name is Gina Norris, I live at 15399 76th St NE, and I am writing to offer my
perspective on why I believe Otsego should move forward with building the first fire
station on our city. I cannot make it to the meeting tonight, but wanted to send an email
hoping it reaches you before the meeting.
As the EDA considers moving forward with an Otsego Fire Station, I wanted to share our
experience having had a fire in 2018.
Many see response times as black and white, but I want to be clear, what you see on
paper is not exactly what happened, therefore I’d like to give a different perspective.
According to records, on the day of our house fire, response time was 9 minutes. But the
actual time from when we called 911 to the time a fire engine showed up was 17
minutes, and it was 19 minutes before fire suppression began. Those reports
don’t include time from when 911 was called, only from when the fire dept was actually
dispatched. In our case, Wright County had to dispatch Sherburne County, who then had
to dispatch Elk River Fire Dept which took 3 minutes. That 3 minutes doesn’t get
included in the response time. Also, the recorded first response time is when the first
emergency vehicle arrives not the actual fire engine.
I hope the verified timeline below gives you a better understanding of “response
times”and allows you to understand that importance of having our own fire station in
Otsego. We are a growing community. We deserve this!
8/18/18
7:41pm - call to 911
7:44- wright county dispatched sherburne country, sherburne dispatched elk river fire
(average dispatch time can be 1-3 min this time it was 3 min)
7:53- first emergency vehicle (non fire truck) arrived on scene (12 min after 911 call, 9
min after dispatch)
7:57 -Engine 2 arrived on scene (13 min after dispatched, 16 min after 911 call)
7:58 - Engine 1 arrived on scene (14 min after dispatch, 17 min after 911 call)
8pm- garage entry, fire suppression began (16 min after dispatched, 19 min after 911
call)
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I can provide any additional information you need should you have any questions.
I have also included a link to an online petition, which has nearly 500 signatures of
support for an Otsego Fire Station.
Petition · Otsego Needs a Fire Station! - United States · Change.org
Thank you for taking the time to read and for all you do.
Gina Norris
763-442-4840
Sent from my iPhone