11-18-97 WSCITY OF OTSEGO
COMPREHENSIVE PLAN
WORKSHOP MEETING
NOVEMBER 18, 1997
7 P
1 Mayor La= Fournier will call meeting to order.
Mayor Fournier called the Workshop to order at 7:01 PM
Roll Call: Mayor Larry Fournier; Councilmembers: Virginia Wendel, Suzanne Ackerman,
Mark Berning, Vern Heidner.
Planning Commission: Ing Roskaft, Richard Nichols, Carl Swenson, Eugene Goenner,
Jim Kolles, Arleen Nagel.
Staff: David Licht, City Planner; Bob Kirmis, Assistant City Planner; John Harwood, City
Engineer; Mike Robertson, City Administrator; Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning
Administrator; Judy Hudson, Deputy Clerk,
Mayor Fournier introduced Mike Robertson.
2 Comprehensive Plan status:
Bob Kirmis briefly reviewed the completion of the following
A Completed Work
1 Tactics
Inventory
Bob reviewed the status of the following:
B Work to be completed
1 Policy Plan
2 Development Framework
Implementation Program
`i Development Moratorium:
A Punose
Mr. Kirmis stated a reason for the moratorium was to provide the city time to study
sanitary sewer issues.
B Termination Date (February 12M
CNeed for an Extension
Mr. Kirmis expects an extension to the moratorium in order for the city to complete the
Comprehensive Plan.
4 Comprehensive
Mr. Kirmis went over • •
A- r and water service to eastern area
uu • b.iS• : :• �•.r
City Council Workshop of November 18, 1997, cont'd. Page 2.
C Limitation of long rangf, ,,,-ban service area.
Mr. Kirmis distributed a map of the present Urban/Rural Service Concept.
Please note: The current Immediate Urban Service Area on this map will be the
recommended Long Range Urban Service Area.
NAC will recommend the Long Range Urban Service Area not be expanded.
Development should be focused within the Sanitary Sewer Service Area of the City.
D. Others
5 1 Tnresolved Issues:
Mr. Kirmis explained the primary reason for this meeting is to review the following
unresolved issues.
David Licht commented what is being sought is basically what the community is striving
for. For the issues covered at this meeting, they aren't looking for a decision but direction
as to what you want investigated as part of the Comprehensive Plan.
Part of the Tactics Study, some of the persons interviewed held strongly to Ag.
preservation and others did not support as strongly as what is found in the existing
Comprehensive Plan. The following issues need discussion and direction.
A- Agricultural preservation.
1 Validity of agricultural preservation
�� Agricultural development right_( p- I per 401
3.
New feedlot ition
Mayor Fournier questioned Mr. Licht what he means by investigated.
Mr. Licht responded the concept of Ag. preservation in the current plan was a very strong
position to prohibit urbanization and development outside of the Immediate and Long
Range Service Areas. Mr. Licht feels this position has weakened. The question is, does
the city continue as is or do you look at the options and the implications.
CM Wendel said she lives in the western/rural area of the City. She has friends and
relatives who are farmers. Due to their age, finances etc., they want to sell their farms and
develop. She has discussed this issue with many and the majority feel they are being
penalized not being able to use their land the same as what is being done in the eastern
side of the city. CM Wendel wants some consideration given to the western side of the
city.
Arleen Nagel sees conflicts with the neighboring farmers who still want to farm. The
people moving in are the ones that will complain about them.
David noted the practicality of that is the farmer loses. They don't have the numbers,
political issue, PCA issues, the farmer hurts.
Mike Robertson agreed with David. You get enough residents moving in with their votes
and the farmer is gone.
City Council Workshop of November 18, 1997, contd. Page 3.
Richard Nichols concerns were with the sewer and water project. If a commitment is
made in the east and development is allowed in the west how will the sewer project be
paid for. He encouraged to control policies to make the sewer project successful.
Richard also questioned if there is a middle ground. He suggested 10 acre lots (minimum)
thus allowing higher value of property but at the same time keeping growth down and less
conflict to a farm.
Ing Roskaft's comments were he is not against development but against development
without proper capitalization. He feels the farmers have been paying for school tax
increases for new developments He also feels that some of the investments in the schools
and community should be up front at the time of development.
David noted that so far, everyone's comments have been for liberalizing the rural area. He
noted there are a lot of factors there and also financial implications.
Mayor Fournier agreed and sees a need to look at the whole picture. Development should
take place as to the availability of services
Eugene Goenner questioned if the city can handle the demands if development starts going
in throughout the rural area. His concerns were with providing services without the
capital investment i.e. snowplowing etc., There could be a higher demand than what the
city can handle. There would also be the competition with development in the west
competing with development in the east.
Mayor Fournier agreed with the competition factor.
CM Wendel stated making the Comp. Plan more liberal for farmers to sell doesn't mean it
will happen right away but at least they could plan. She just doesn't want the door closed
on them.
CM Heidner suggested reviewing the transfer of development rights, and requiring that
development must be on paved roads only.
There was further discussion on this issue with reference to road concerns, public safety
issues, street maintenance.
CM Berning went back to the suggested 10 acre lots with concerns of dead land, future
sewer hookups, and questioned if whether or not 10 acre lots would be protecting Ag.
area. He doesn't feel the farmers can continue farming unless the city has a more lenient
policy. He asked what kind of encouragement will the city give that you can farm.
Eugene Goenner agreed with Berning's comments. His concerns were with the city
encouraging expanded tax base more than twice for everything else except for the farmers.
The farmers are concerned - they don't know what the city wants and some want to stay
and some want to sell. He would like to see more direction and the current Feedlot policy
is not a favorable policy.
David Licht brought this back by asking if the Feedlot Policy gets re -looked at. Ag
viability is a issue. Overall what is the market, and need a perspective of that. At some
City Council Workshop of November 18, 1997, cont'd. Page 4.
point it is the Council's responsibility to act in the community's interest and not the interest
of just one group - what is of benefit for this community may restrict one group of people.
The direction for this community was set many years ago with the first platting. He feels
the city is again at a crossroads.
Richard Nichols suggested a financial comparison in order to make an informed decision.
What expenses are there such as schools etc., What is needed in terms of businesses and
the kind of returns the city receives from them and also from a large scale farm. Richard
encouraged the city to look at the facts and numbers and not emotions for decision and
that the city needs NAC to provide these numbers.
CM Heidner agreed and that whatever is done there is a group that is not happy.
Mayor Fournier stated there is a consensus to investigate these issues.
B- Unsewered development allowl=&
ces.
1 _ Longran_ge urban service area (current immed ate urban
service area) pro ibition of 1 acre lots
This is the dark area on the attached map.
Mr. Licht asked how does the city want to address this. In reversing the position of these
two areas, does the city continue with one acre lots in the Long Range Urban service area.
The issue falls back to finances. There are a number of ways to look at this. Mr. Licht
suggested if one acre lots are allowed, mandate subdivision and require outlots for future
sewer hookups.
Will the city allow development without sewer and water?
There was discussion how much land is available in this area.
A question was raised as to the time frame for sewer lines being extended beyond service
area.
John Harwood stated a time frame hasn't been discussed. If the request is there, the line
could be extended.
There was discussion on some of the smaller parcels and the possibility of exceptions
made for them.
Mayor Fournier requested NAC to provide reasons for exceptions.
2 _River corridor area North of Co Rd #39
Mr. Licht noted this area has been designated as Long Range Service Area 4 in 40.
Mayor Fournier's thoughts would be for higher density with services.
(Jim Kolles arrived)
Western area of City.
Mr. Licht stated if there would be urban development in the west, his concern is then the
city needs to get John Harwood involved. The city needs some basic analysis for running
pipe from the east plant to service that area. Need a factual statement. John needs an
analysis of costs for 1; No service. 2; Plant extension, or tie in with Albertville 3;
Independent System. Report doesn't need details.
There was discussion on Albertville's service area, future sewer needs, type of
development and demand.
CM Wendel brought everyone up to date on the joint meeting she had with Albertville.
City Council Workshop of November 18, 1997, contd. Page 5.
Mayor Fournier agreed that John Harwood's input is needed.
Mike Robertson also agreed that estimates are needed.
John Harwood said this is not difficult to do, but what are you going to compare it to, to
see if it is feasible. If a package plant is built - discharge issues, land uses, probability of a
discharge permit.
CM Wendel asked how many times is a Comprehensive Plan drawn up. The last one, the
farmers couldn't sell for development and wants to see this one broader.
Mayor Fournier noted the farmers supported the current plan.
Dave Licht pointed out the current plan was put together with discussions like this
workshop and the prime focus was how to solve the potential pollution problems on the
east side.
David suggested that staff do an outline with John Harwood.
John said he needs to look more at a service area rather than the whole city.
CM Berning questioned if there would be a limited amount of Package Treatment Plants
allowed - how about the land that can't be served.
John said everything can be serviced - it just takes money which might not be practical.
Mr. Licht assumes that the CSAH 19 corridor should be looked at also.
4 Wild and scenic district to sizes (2-5 acres vs..acres)
CM Heidner questioned what the ramifications of the Wild and Scenic Area are with
sewered lot sizes.
David briefly went over the history of the Wild and Scenic Area. There would be issues of
open space, issue of value and can be looked at.
Mayor Fournier informed everyone of the recent meeting he and Elaine Beatty had with
the DNR.
CM Berning asked about the triangle area of the city (Section 34 Range 24) and if
Albertville could extend services to this area.
CM Wendel said she will discuss this with Albertville at their next meeting.
David agreed this area needs to be looked at.
CSewered development allowances.
1 Otsego/Albertville border areas.
a No Service
b Otsego plant extension
c Albertville = )ant extension
d Independent system
?County Road_ 1_9_
'i onsideratiotL
a Market demand
David suggested an analysis of market demand is needed to make decision. Normally, an
analysis is projected over a period of time and takes into account recession. The Metro
Area projected in 20 years there will 600,000 additional people. Currently, there are
City Council Workshop of November 18, 1997, cont'd. Page 6.
communities who are saying they don't want this growth. If so, this will have major
implications for Otsego. The message is also getting out there will be no more freeway
improvements. Traffic goes up 7% each year and in the next 20 years it will double.
CM Berning asked if the Market Demand Analysis will include commercial and industrial
demand.
David said it will take commercial into consideration in relationship to residential. He
noted this would be more convenience type shopping. For industry, can they attract
workers and also the TIF incentives.
There was discussion on competing with neighboring cities with commercial and
industrial.
b ('ocdfin_ancing
David also advised the city to look at the future costs of roads, parks, etc.
C- ImpnactLu conflicts.
1 Agricultural/urban
Previously discussed.
Residents a] /rice track
There was discussion on the race track. David sees a number of factors: short season,
competition, limited races, cost to develop, state assistance for interchange which the
State isn't in a position to do and therefore doesn't see how financially it can go.
D Others:
F Comprehensive Plan Tim .line:
David is looking at the middle of July for the Public Hearing. NAC will prepare a draft
and suggested another joint discussion between the Council and Planning Commission.
Once the plan is in acceptable position then informational meetings should be held. He
suggested districts for this. The last step would be the adoption process.
7 omprehensive Plan Budget infln nces:
David noted half of the budget has been used. Two impacts will be John Harwood's work
and the Market Analysis.
R Comment-, andQ=stions:
Mike Robertson asked David and John to give the city estimates of costs for the Market
Analysis.
Mike talked about the break even point for homes. A Lakeville study showed that 99% of
the city's volunteers came from well below the break even point homes. The lower value
housing residents tend to get more involved.
CM Berning questioned John Harwood on the sewer questions. Is there some indication
on how much the city can afford if plan is in the east or Albertville, and how much can
Otsego realistically put in.
John agreed this needs to be considered. David informed the Council, Gary Groen and
Mike Robertson also need to be involved.
City Council Workshop of November 18, 1997, cont'd. Page 7.
9 Adjoum,
CM Berning motioned to adjourn. Seconded by CM Ackerman. All in favor.
Motion carried.
Worksho . adjourned at 8:40 PM.
ayor L Fo 'er
Recorded by: Judy Hudson, Deputy
City Seal
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