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03-17-97 WSCITY OF OTSEGO SPECIAL WORKSHOP MONDAY MARCH 17, 1997 1. Mayor Fournier will call meeting to order, Mayor Larry Fournier called the Workshop to order at 7 PM. Roll Call: Mayor Larry Fournier; Councilmembers: Virginia Wendel, Mark Berning, Vern Heidner, Suzanne Ackerman. Larry Koshak, City Engineer, Kevin Kielb, Assistant City Engineer; Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Administrator; Judy Hudson, Deputy Clerk. 2. Discussion of study to he completed y Larry Koshak (water and .sewer trunk and suh-trunk information) with Mayor and Council. Mayor Fournier opened the discussion and turned it over to the City Engineer, Larry Koshak. Mr. Koshak explained the proposal presented to the City Council was for developing a study, which is a planning document to be a companion of the Comprehensive Plan, assuming the City goes ahead with sewer and water. The study would show where the sewer trunk and sub -trunk lines and lift stations would be placed based on the knowledge that has been received to date. The document would also be a guideline for future extension of sewer and water for the City. As with most documents, it would be a guideline. Before the study begins, Mr. Koshak needs advice from the Council if this is the area where they plan to put sewer and water. Basically the area which has been discussed is what has been referred to as Phase 1 and Phase la. Mr. Koshak distributed maps of such areas. Phase 1 is the area with undeveloped area east of CSAH 42 and those areas south of the Immediate Service Area that are undeveloped. It has been his understanding, working with the Council, that it was their interest to have sewer and water located there because of industrial and commercial along 101 and also residential housing area. There is also Phase la alternative to Phase 1 and prepare to service if there is a requirement. It is a secondary course for extensions of water and sewer since it is difficult at this time to know which properties have the most potential for development. It also dictates the council's desire that development occurs in a particular area. Also included is the newly acquired area from Frankfort - portions of the existing industrial and commercial area. Phase 1 and 1 a should be near the capacity that was discussed about the first phase to year 2006 in the Bonestroo Study. Capacity now looks like a 50/50 split with Dayton and that is the capacity being discussed about distributing throughout this area. The plan goes beyond 2006 and there would be the continuance of the plan for the sewer trunk and sub -trunk lines to include the long range service area, (currently developed in 1 acre lots), and that basically provides a plan when the time comes that area needs sewer and water they can plan where the trunk lines will go. There may be restrictions like streets etc., but at least the City will know where they are and will be able to reserve the corridors for the main trunk lines. Also included is the developed area in the old Frankfort area (one acre lots). This doesn't City Council Workshop of March 17, 1997, contd. Page 2. say the plan can't be amended. For the capacity the City is looking for now, he understands that these are the areas to be included in Phase 1 and 1 a. Mr. Koshak asked if there was an understanding on this issue. CM Heidner said the way the numbers came up, they took existing number .124 mgd (page 15) and where did this number come from. Mr. Koshak replied that includes residential .108, commercial with 65 RSCS. for .016 or .124. That is the existing being referred to and will have to remove. Mr. Koshak said they had to have included some undeveloped area in that number and to his knowledge Bonestroo did not have direction to go into the existing area. CM Heidner and Mr. Koshak went through some numbers finding out how Otsego comes up with a 200,000 gallon plant, subtracting the .124 number out leaving Otsego with .106. Mr. Koshak said this 432 units is confusing by using existing and again the direction wasn't for existing. The Bonestroo map showed some residential that was not developed and he believes they used that portion. Looking at the map, (before page 22), there is a dash line that is the same line that is identical to Larry's. Underneath this green line is the Immediate Service Area Line and therefore the area did include some undeveloped area and that is where he gets the existing. None of the existing is in there except for bank, Tom Thumb, vet and church and those are the only existing ones which are all commercial type properties. Basically what is aimed for is the Year 2006 because that is the goal. (The 2006 total was the .23 and how much of that was Darkenwalds which was 30,000 gallons and you take that out, Otsego's share was 200,000 gallons up to 2000). CM Heidner said it still doesn't match up where the rest of it will come from. Mr. Koshak referred to his map where it shows the units, and if you add those units up you will see where the 400 units come from. Take the 200,000 gallons divide by 250 you get 800 units up to the year 2006. CM Heidner noted take that number divide by 6 years you come up with 133 houses a year to have the plant pay for itself. Mr. Koshak pointed out the plant is planned for 10 years (800 units and divide by 10 it amounts to 80 units a year). 80 units is approximately a 40 acre parcel which is a simplistic approach. You have to look at how you pay for it (capitalizing interest). There is also the quarterly fees to pay the O&M fees. CM Heidner said it still needs to be clear in everyone's mind to know what capacity Otsego is looking for and still seems to be talking two different numbers. Mayor Fournier believes the start up capacity for the plant is 200,000 including Dayton. CM Heidner asked about 12,500 square foot lots and if the size should be increased. Elaine Beatty pointed out the ordinance states 12,000 square foot lots and the ordinance would have to be changed if the council wanted something different. CM Heidner stated this would be reviewed at the comprehensive plan update. Mr. Koshak pointed out it is always desirable to have larger lots but the developer needs to make it work financially. a City Council Workshop of March 17, 1997, cont'd. Page 3. CM Heidner questioned if Otsego doesn't have an abundance of starter homes stating he would like to see a variety. Mr. Koshak said good planning is to plan for a variety of housing. He has seen where a 40 acre plat has different segments to it, using a variety. CM Heidner said if we are looking at capacity numbers and we are anticipating a change that would impact the capacity we would plan for. Mr. Koshak reminded everyone that the facilities plan should go along with the comprehensive plan and everyone agreed. Also the public feedback would go into the planning. There was further discussion on the different variety of homes. Mayor Fournier asked with a 12,000 sq. foot lot how many you get to an acre. Mr. Koshak said out of 40 acres there would be 68% housing and rest would be streets. Mayor Fournier asked if it would take 80 RECS. per year to meet the debt requirement. Mr. Koshak responded it depends upon whatever the price comes in at. Mayor Fournier questioned which is more difficult to pay for - the waste water treatment plant or the collection system (trunk system). Mr. Koshak said they go hand in hand. Otsego has a unique experience here where it doesn't have any services. Most communities already have something in place. CM Wendel asked if there is any idea what a system would cost. Mayor Fournier replied this is the information Bonestroo will give. Mr. Koshak agreed, and the size and capacity will have to be given to them. Mayor Fournier said Bonestroo has been told 200,000 gpd combined for both communities. Therefore, 100,000 gpd for Otsego. Mr. Koshak asked if that would take you to the year 2006. CM Heidner thought it probably won't last 10 years, more like 7 or 8. He has been told that it probably won't be a mechanical plant at 200,000 gpd and MPCA will probably look at that. Most likely be talking about aeration ponds for the first phase. Mr. Koshak said by putting in ponds, the next step is more difficult - changing types of processing. (CM Heidner asked if the step from the pond to the mechanical, which, by that time there are a lot of users in place, it is not as painful and makes him more comfortable to get going on)? Mr. Koshak stated the Council has to justify what they spend today, even though the future looks bright for a larger system. CM Heidner asked how much is disposable - if you acquire enough land for the ultimate mechanical plant (like 20 acres) use part of that for pond and later use for the mechanical plant. Mr. Koshak replied yes but you can use some for the pond and go in stages like Rogers did. Elk River has always had a mechanical plant. Mayor Fournier asked which option the Bonestroo report will show. Elaine said when she talked to Tom Noyes recently, she went over all of this with him and he informed her they would recommend, with the information given them, what would be best for that capacity. City Council Workshop of March 17, 1997, cont'd. Page 4. Mr. Koshak said that would than be different from the letter stating the mechanical plant. Mayor Fournier also said Ted Fields had told him they would give us the additional information. CM Berning questioned if it wouldn't be better to service Phase 1 a rather than 1. He doesn't understand how the City would get through the bottleneck. Mayor Fournier commented that it takes residential RECS. for pay for the plant. CM Heidner replied that in Phase 1 a, to service that, a gravity system would have to be put in. Phase 1 appears to have commercial activity and interest around CSAH 42, 39 and 101 and talked about having that force main to go 42 up the hill. In order to service Phase la, we would have to put in a force main. Mr. Koshak explained the flow directions by using the map and the trunks. The other alternative, if one area wants sewer a lift station can be put in, utilizing the contours in the land to make it work. CM Berning said the problem he has is that at the last meeting, John Darkenwald asked if his 250 acres are in this and Mayor Fournier asked if he wanted it in there and Mr. Darkenwald replied no. CM Berning got the impression the Mayor tentatively agreed to take it out. Mayor Fournier said no he didn't, that he told him he could use his capacity, extra 30,000 gallons in his existing plant and told him to bring in a map to know what he is talking about. Elaine Beatty informed the Council there is a developer looking at additional commercial near the Bank. Mr. Koshak said the Darkenwald property (Trailer Park) has always been left out of discussions and how it got into the Bonestroo report he doesn't know. CM Heidner asked if their plant is upgraded, in addition to the MPGA, does the City also have to give approval. Mr. Koshak assumed so. CM Heidner questioned if the City gets a plant built and can service that area, would the State give them a permit to expand and to discharge to the Mississippi, when the City would have a permit to discharge into the Crow. Kevin Kielb replied the City can not discharge to Mississippi when there is another alternative which is the reason the City is going to the Crow River and would also apply to the Darkenwalds. Mr. Koshak said the Darkenwalds have the 30,000 gallons available which, in his opinion, is as much as they can utilize and they should be limited to a particular area. The Council may give them the choice of where it should be. Mayor Fournier acked CM Berning if he thought the Darkenwalds should be able to service all their property. CM Berning replied it depends on how fast the City can get their plant going. CM Berning questioned what percent slope will a gravity accept. Mr. Koshak said it depends on the pipe size 8 inch has to be .04% and 10 inch is .12% in terms of a 100 feet. CM Wendel asked, for Phase 1 how many acres are up for platting of residential. City Council Workshop of March 17, 1997, cont'd. Page 5. Mr. Koshak replied there is the Sadowski land, intersection of 39 and Parrish, and the school. Assessment discussion Mr. Koshak said the key is to place the burden on the development but some portion will be placed on the land even if it is a minimal amount. They would have sewer availability. CM Heidner asked if the developer pays for the trunk and lateral up front and than whoever builds the house pays the WAC and SAC charges. Mr. Koshak replied yes but should put some against the land, like plant costs, a minimal amount. There was discussion that assessments are paid off at the time of purchase. Mr. Koshak said that if you take a forty acre parcel and put in a trunk line, some portion of that debt should be applied in assessments against the land whether they build or not because they have capacity. CM Wendel questioned if we should find out from St. Michael what their debt service is and how many hookups they need, comparing numbers. Kevin replied for St. Michael they are looking (trunk facility expansion) at 80 to 90 hookups a year, which fluctuates. Numbers were worked through with financial consultants. It is different from Otsego because they had a number of existing users ready to hook up. Mr. Koshak said they probably have an established policy on how to charge for sewer. There was further discussion on capacity and dollar amounts according to the Bonestroo Report. Laad Council and Staff talked about the amount of land they should be looking at for treatment plant. There was support for Mayor Fournier to continue looking for land. Costs Discussion Mr. Koshak discussed two sources of power are needed. Either two separate sub- stations tried in or a sub -station and a generator. It was noted there are different sources - Wright -Hennepin and Elk River Utilities and also NSP. Also a portable generator can be purchased to be moved from site to site. CM Heidner summed it up by saying the number Bonestroo will be using for Otsego is 100,000 gpd and also to incorporate all items of Larry Koshak's letter of 2-6-97 and to look at different treatment plant costs. Mayor Fournier said starting with small plant is it expensive to upgrade because it is so small. Mr. Koshak replied initially ponds cost more because of the land and the lining but maintenance is low. Only a Class D Operative is needed. The ponds will be the cheapest as you go through. When you have to turn over to the next process than the change over process the capital costs will be more. Bonestroo will be giving this information. City Council Workshop of March 17, 1997, cont'd. Page 6. Mayor Fournier asked about using the City Hall Site. It was noted taking it all the way to the Crow River would be expensive and not using gravity wisely. CM Wendel stated that once the decision is made on sewer the City should start working on the Comprehensive Plan because she has questions for the western side of the City. CM Berning left at this point but stated he has no problem going ahead with trunk line study. The rest of the Council agreed. 3. Any other business. It was discussed about Dave Chase purchasing sandbags and the Council thought this decision would be up to Dave Chase. CM Wendel asked if the City wants to participate in the Blanden Foundation. CM Heidner stated he doesn't see it as being beneficial but he and Mayor Fournier stated CM Wendel should go if she wishes. The Public Works Sub -committee has changed the date of their meeting to March 27th. CM Heidner motioned to adjourn. Seconded by CM Ackerman. All in fg Motion carried. Workshop,adjourned at 9:48 PM. : Elaine Beattv, Citv Clerk/Zonkfaf Adm. Recorded by: Judy Hudson, Deputy Clerk