06-10-98 IMCITY OF OTSEGO P.C./COUNCIL INFORMATIONAL
MEETING RE: COMP. PLAN
MINUTES
JUNE 10, 1998 - 8PM
FORTH INFORMATIONAL MEETING ON THE RURAL RESIDENTIAL
PRESERVE AREA:
Mayor Fournier called the meeting to order at 8:OOPM. He gave introductions
Roll Call:
Mayor Larry Fournier, Council Members Heidner, Wendel, and Berning were
present, Suzanne Ackerman was absent; Planning Commissioners Nichols, Nagel, Kolles,
and Goenner were also present;
Dan Licht, Assistant City Planner, John Harwood, City Engineer, Mike
Robertson, City Administrator and Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Administrator were
present from Staff.
Administrator Robertson gave a brief overview and explanation of why we are here.
Make your wishes known. Council will weigh comments of individual owners and
developers and try to put into effect the best overall plan for the City.
Dan Licht, Assistant Planner gave an overview of the Comprehensive Plan Draft, with the
process of the update of the plan. He explained the concept plan and the map with the
different areas. He showed the transportation system and park plan and explained briefly.
Cluster development was explained. (Transition Area) 4 per 40, or 10 per 40 with cluster
concept incentive offered. Concentrated housing units smaller area - leave the rest of
space open. One -Half of the property will be in a conservation easement.
Why Encourage Cluster? More efficient services, preserves open space, open space
negotiable, natural habitat, recreation areas, AG or pasture, trails, etc. Further overheads
and explanations done through a zoning ordinance, restricts design of lots, where you
locate house, front and maximum setbacks, focus (move house up to front). Each
development is unique. The P.C. would study w/intent of how to set up to achieve goals.
Move from P.C. with recommendation to the City Council, who has final approval. #39 is
a natural barrier. River provides natural amenity, higher value houses, ($200,000 plus).
Idea that value of house will not compete with urban service area houses.
The Meeting then broke up into small group areas where residents/land
owners/Developers, etc. could ask their questions of Council/PC/Staff for one half hour.
The Meeting was called back to order by Mayor Fournier.
Dan Licht, explained the sewer investigation area of Island View - Concern for pollution
in that area and future sewer may be necessary.
- Page 2 - FORTH INFORMATIONAL MEETING ON RURAL RESIDENTIAL
PRESERVE AREA:
Mayor Fournier turned the meeting over to Mike Robertson, who answered questions
from the audience.
Question: Charlotte Whalen - Question of reinforcing something - concerns of ground
water pollution - septic system, she has a person living in a garage next door with a huge
junk yard with outhouse.
Answer: Outhouse is not illegal. We appreciate information and photos you
brought. (Charlotte Whalen wanted to see documentation on outhouse - She felt it
was in violation of an ordinance - Why not more outhouses?) More discussion of
outhouses at cabins, etc.
Question: Mr. Stander - Believes State Statute you have to be 100 ft from the river.
About 10 per 40 clustered close to the road. Has City discussed what the ordinance on
remaining 50%?
Answer: We just started to talk about that. 50% of buildable land has to be
preserved as open space (Ag uses, wild, trees, etc). We have not yet written the
ordinance.
Question: Does the City want to keep natural? Who would own natural state Ag land?
Answer; We are just in discussion of how to handle this. (Lake Elmo conservation
easement - State land trust explained)
Question: Chuck Hartel - Carver and Scott Counties do have cluster requirement. Hope a
possibility to use open area for public - not private use. Scott Co. 14 -units or 11 units for
Carver County. (How was 10 per 40 arrived at?) 10 per 40 too small. If we say 10 units
and we don't know the proposal, maybe S to 16 units would be better.
Answer: 10 is not minimum, it's maximum.
Question: Alexander - If cluster area is built in Ag Area, would it have a sewage or septic
system?
Answer: Septic systems (Individual systems -vs- joint systems being looked at).
Question: DNR says 2-1/2 acres. City imposing 4acres per house. Why swaying away
from DNR's recommendation?
Answer: 1 per 40 is the current requirement. State/DNR Wild and Scenic - A
number pulled out of a hat for discussion was 4 per 40 for transitional areas. 10 per
40 is not a fixed number.
Question: Kolles - Felt it should be more than 10 per 40.
Question: Sewer issue - How does 10 per 40 avoid sewer problem?
Answer: I don't know. It's better than 2-1/2 Acres. One Acre lot is often not
enough room for alternate sewer system. (Discussed State standards/keep changing)
The Long Range Urban Service people can put in another septic (don't have to hook
up) explained the cluster system.
Question: Do we know of other communities with cluster housing we could look at?
Answer: Lake Elmo, Marine on the St Croix, Carver and Scott Counties have an
ordinance.
- Page 3 - FORTH INFORMATIONAL MEETING ON RURAL RESIDENTIAL
PRESERVE AREA:
Question: I have been at Lake Elmo and it looks pretty good.
Question: Is there an alternative to cluster housing?
Answer: 4 per 40 would be allowed.
Question: If State increases 10 per 40 how will it develop? DNR is 2-1/2 acres in Wild
and Scenic River District.
Answer: 10 per 40 is a density for people to react to.
Question:: Don Greninger - You can cluster 4 per 40 also.
Answer: Yes, not the same. Some older communities cluster and sell every 2nd or
3rd lot.
Question: Have you contacted large tracts of land, anyone interested?
Answer: One or two interested, no proposals yet.
Question: Any developer interested in developing with the cluster?
Answer: Bob Engstrom discussed with P.C. and Council.
Question: Marion Alexander - How long before that comes to pass and we can decide.
We have 53 acres a majority is wooded. Down the road it will be good retirement. We
are interested in this concept.
Question: I think they would be interested in value of alternative also.
Question: We lived in Illinois, they had 1/2 acre lots and the builder connected two homes
to one system. That didn't work.
Question: 10 wells - 10 septic tanks close together, with cluster housing?
Question: Are you familiar with Daryl Ewing's development across from Monticello in
Big Lake Twp?
Answer: Elaine Beatty knows about this development as she had talked with the
owner and they welcome the City Stats to tour same.
Question: Marion Alexander - Some people have been long enough on the land so it is
there retirement. 31 years we have been here. This is my savings.
Answer: Robertson explained the Ag area meeting last night 55% to 65% would
like to sell for development. Some wanted to farm. Very few want it to stay as is.
Question: Marion - Talked about farms and farming and she feels farmers should be able
to farm or develop at their choice.
Question: Some of us bought because of openness of the land.
Question: Don Greninger - When you moved out here we did not say anything, I've been
here 70 years.
- Page 4 - FORTH INFORMATIONAL MEETING ON RURAL RESIDENTIAL
PRESERVE AREA:
Question: I like to see the farms. I would like to see Greninger stay as a farm, but see his
point and I like the cluster idea.
Question: Marion Alexander - Agreed the cluster makes more sense. 10 years after we
moved, the City people came and were picnicking on our grove and dug up our trees.
Resident - I feel no cow manure, no dirt bikes, etc. You can't have your cake and eat it
too.
Question: Does cluster have one road in or all dashed in the development area?
Question: They need a road. Probably tie into Co. Rd.#39. 80 to 20 Acre road network
in, doesn't have to be contiguous to the developed area.
Question: When do you expect the next meeting on this?
Answer: June 24, 1998 at 8PM Joint PC/CC Workshop.
60 surveys received so far. 300 approx. people attended the public Info. meetings.
we urge you to fill out the surveys. The goal is July Public Hearing on Comp. Plan.
Question: I appreciate you making a plan that meets everyone's needs and the land and
wild animals needs.
Mayor Fournier - I invite everyone to meetings to hear your thoughts before the
final document. We would include your information in the final form. We had a
good turn out. The July Hearing will be in the paper.
Resident - What is Otsego's population?
Answer: Approximately 6,500.
Hearing no further comments or questions, Mayor Fournier thanked everyone for
attending and adjourned the meeting.
Rough draft of minutes by Elaine Beatty, City Clerk.
File'98INFOMMPS —