02-26-92 PCCITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 2-26-92
8PM - PAGE 1 -
Chair Carl Swenson called the meeting to order at 8PM.
Members present were as follows:
ING ROSKAFT EUGENE GOENNER RON BLACK-C/PC
CARL SWENSON JIM KOLLES KATHY LEWIS
DENNIS MC ALPINE
Staff present were as follows;
LARRY KOSHAK BOB KIRMIS, NAC JUDY HUDSON
ELAINE BEATTY
Council Members present were as follow-
Floyd Roden Doug Lindenfelser Norm F Freske
Roskaft motioned to approve the minutes of February 5, 1992.
Kolles seconded the motion.
On the second page of the minutes, Roskaft's motion on
Urban Service Area Boundaries, the reason was to get the
interface off Urban and Rural Areas off the road. Swenson
asked if Roskaft and the Commission wanted to change his
motion to include the #39 area? Roskaft said that he did
not. Swenson stated that it is important when we change the
road that we have a rational for doing it. Lewis asked if
the discussion was on the #39 Urban and Rural Service line.
Swenson told her that Roskaft is in opposition to changing
it. Lewis felt we are being hasty on #39. Roskaft said he
didn't feel we are being Hasty on #39. We can always make
that change on #39 later. It is not the same on #39 anyway
said Roskaft. We are only talking about Nashua to the West.
Goenner said he feels looking at the Comp. Plan and knowing
where #39 lies and we have residential on one side and ag on
the other side, and the majority of #39 is not being
developed, I feel it is not wise to change it now. The river
is also on the North Side of #39. Swenson said that much of
the land is unsuitable for farming and the same mix exists
South of 70TH where we would do it. I raised the question to
be considered. Motion carried unanimously.
Swenson asked if they are ready to .approve the Minutes
of Vandenberge Jr Highschool. The Commission was not ready
and they will be put on the 3/4/92 Agenda of the Planninq
Commission.
3. STEVE SCHARBER AND TONI EMMERICH - COUNTRY RIDGE REQUEST
IS FOR: (PRELIMINARY PLAT) AND REZONING FROM A-2 TO R-1 PID
#118-500-222400 in Sec. 22, Twp 121, R23. As per Otsego's
Subdivision Ordinances as adopted February. 1991. The
Proposed plat is located south of 89TH ST and E of Page Ave
and overlays a portion of River Rd which is proposed for
vacation.
Bob Kirmis went over NAC's Report on Country Ridge dated
-fanuar ,,,, 31 . 1` 92 and Update datead F=ebruary 11' , 1`x9'2 . He
stat,ad that March of last year an application was brought
torth to rezone ,A-2 to R 1.. He reterred to the preliminar-
k:i'f' 1...)"Intry FCldap Slubdrllicion . He AJF nt. over P, -.vie +$2 and
I.I oi' (SIA R^port of
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 2-26-92
AT 8PM - PAGE 2 -
1. Applicant has met the 1 Acre lot size requirements.
2. Applicant has introduced 87TH Street to meet block length
requirements.
3. Applicant has not complied with (See Addendum by NAC of
Feb 19, 1992 No. 4)
4. Single family access to existing city roads not permitted
S. Has been complied with
6. Has been complied with
7. See Addendum #8 of February 19, 1992 The plat is
revised to illustrate the dedication of the eastern portion
of a future extension of Paae Avenue to the South. Specific
dedication requirements should be responsive to an adjacent
single family residence. This item should be subject to
comment by the City Engr."
8. silo needs to be removed
9. Accessory storage needs to be removed (wooden fence needs
to be removed).
10. Complied with
12. City Engr Comments
13. One project (not phased)
14. Will be resolved
1S. - NAC feels the light is needed
16. to be resolved
17. to be resolved
18. Original subdivision plan - if you were to subdivide
further. you needed to get neighbors permission. NAC feels
it is not a good idea.
ADDITION FROM ADDENDUM=
19. The developer prepare an Environmental Assessment
Worksheet for the subject subdivision. The said EAW shall be
subject to review by the City Engr and must be approved by
the City Council. (Required by State if 80 or more acres of
An land area to be used for residential use)
2�. Except as expressly allowed by the City. all utilities
are placed underground.
2:D. If condition of a power line demands more than a local
service easement. the easement widths shall be responsive of
power utility company requirements.
Kiirmis added that NAC has r, -,commended approval of the
Preliminary Plat subject to these above, and attached
conditions
Koshak noted that they concur with NAC and has discussed
the overall drainage plan which the council approved and it
is not -et complete=. (See attached report rrom Hakanson
And,��T-ion Assoc. Inc Dated February 26. 1992 ( Items 1 -9 i
Koshak staters a, sum.i nq all conditions ar �D- met , he recommends,
taper ('.)"/ I .
:>wenson .a,,, d' Lf the wi: hid to make any
commentr_; _ He said h did not. but would answer an,,,,
1 tial ] ". fn L'. t
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 2/26/92
8PM - PAGE 3 -
out? It will be ready in a day or so was the answer. Koshak
stated that the Preliminary Plat should be approved before
the EAW is done.
Roskaft asked if rezoning is done. Not yet was the
answer.
Goenner asked on Item 6B, does that include underground
tiles? The landowners said the previous owner never
mentioned it. It is overland drainage. Goenner asked owner
to find out about tiles.
Roskaft asked about February 19, 1992 addendum. Do you
recommend tabeling this request? Kirmis said most of these
conditions have been met as part of the requirements of the
preliminary plan.
McAlpine asked about the area along Page that they are
talking about. The houses that are West of Page, the wells
there are 180' deep but it is sandrock and very fine. You
have to null back. They take too much sandrock. There are
quite a few homes in there. How much problems are you
looking at down the road? You could have a problem with all
these wells in there. 85TH and Page is sandrock ledge. Has
there been any tests in there? He is concerned with the
future of all the developments in that area with all the sand
there.
We need to approve the Rezoning and a Cond. Use Permit
before we approve the Preliminary Plat.
Roskaft motioned to rezone this Country Ridge Plat PID
#118-500-222400 in Sec. 22, Twp 121, R23 from A-2 to R-1,
because it is in the Land Use Plan and Comp Plan and the
Staff recommends it. (See NAC's Report on Country Ridge Plat
of February 3, 1992 and addendum of February 19, 1992_
Lewis seconded the motion_ Motion carried unanimously.
Lewis motioned to grant a Cond. Use Permit for the
Country Ridge Plat PID #118-500-222400 in Sec 22, Twp 121,
R23. Roskaft seconded the motion. Motion carried
unanimously.
Swenson said the Preliminary Plat was next.
Goenner motioned to continue this action until all items can
be looked at. Jim Kolles seconded the motion.
Lewis asked if the Engineer would be able to look into
McAlpine's concerns`: McAlpine said his concern is that the
wells ars: 80 to 90 feet deep. My biggest concern is having
someone punch a 60 foot well. Koshak said he thinks it is a
real concern about development in this particular area.
Quality of the water will deteriorate over the years.
Discussion was had on contamination and the aquifer. Ther( ----
is a mean^ to check it out said McAlpine. Koshak said the
t.:te keens records of the wells.
Thi. Ennlneer for the developer said some of the is -cues
will be met with the Abd Process. It L's 1<1nd of a (.atch -'_2
Wo nced nrel iml nary Plat Arpr,--) al to be able t!; 4-1O
.. ...
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 2/26/92 AT 8PM
- PAGE 4 -
Goenner would like the developer to inquire about
underground the line. Black felt that it seems to him the
Hearing should be closed and get on with the show. Goenner
would like more time to look this over.
Swenson said he didn't feel we could take time to look
this over-, as much time has already been spent on this. It
is not fair to the developer.
Roskaft asked for a repeat of the motion.
Kolles with drew his second of the motion. Motion died for
lack of second.
Lewis motioned to recommend Preliminary Plat approval of
the Country Ridge Plat, assuming all the conditions will be
met prior to Final Plat approval. Motion seconded by
Roskaft. Motion carried, with Goenner opposing.
4. CITY COUNCIL FOR THE CITY OF OTSEGO - REQUEST IS FOR: A
COND USE PERMIT TO BUILD A NEW CITY HALL AND A LONG RANGE
URBAN SERVICE LINE ADJUSTMENT. PID #118-500-202100 IN SEC_
20, Twp 121, R23 Land is Zoned A-2. As provided for in
Wright Co Ord as adopted by Otsego 604.4 Conditional Uses.
This property is located 3/4 Mi S of existing City Hall on
Nashua Ave.
Kirmis went over NAC's Report of February 13, 1992
and summarized it (See Report). He stated that the Staff
feels that the Boundary Line Adjustment is justified because
of limited Ag Potential. ( See Pg 3 1--4 of NAC's Report) . He
recommends approval of the Cond. Use Permit subject of
conditions 1-8 Pg #2 of NRC's Report).
Swenson asked if there were any questions?
Lewis asked why #2 would be a Cond. Use Permit? Kirmis said
the City Hall should be subject to public comment he feels,
but it is up to the Planning Commission's discretion.
Goenner said land which would be rezoned in not prime ag
land. What are you referring to? Kirmis answered boundary
.line adjustment. It is not considered Prime aq land.
Goenner said where the City Hall Site is, is not prime ag
land, but other land in the boundary line change is.
Lewis said that is not the only issue- . 1/4 mile ( 1320'
on i-Iashua is the line change).
Joan Hasslen asked if you are lookin- at land a 3/4
mile? Last and West over to #37 said Floyd Goenner. Lewis
said we ars-: not rezoning anything. Kirmis said Zoning would
not change unless you initiate it. Urban/Rural Taxing
Districts were brought up and it was discussed that now the
tax rate for each is the same.
Less Lukenenon said maybe ten ye,--vrs down the line you
!-?11t a sewe,,- li ne down Nashua Avenue. They would have
to sell out to put the sewer in. The way E l k River has
n t -,� iast tan s . of sego could do the same.
Boundary changes for the Long Range Service Area had
been motioned and unanimously approved at the Planning
omm •_.cion Meeting of February S. 1992.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 2/26/92 AT 8PM
- PAGE 5 -
Kirmis said the rezoning would follow adoption of the new
Zoning Ordinance. Wright Co allows Town and City Halls in
Ag area now.
Roskaft motioned to grant a Cond Use Permit for City
Hall PID #118-500-202100 in Sec 20, Twp 121, R23. Lewis
seconded the motion.
Black asked is any of the public has comments on the
location of the City Hall?
Don Tholkes -- What kind of building will it be:' Date
and timeline? When will we have Police and Fire Dept.?
Mayor and Council are here and will comment on this.
Mayor Freske said we are looking at one building now and Fire
and Police much later. We hope to get started as soon as
Pocsible. $400.000.00 was the initial cost two years ago.
Motion carried with Goenner abstaining from voting.
5. MARK WOOLSTON OF MARCUS INVESTMENT GROUP - Requests a
decision from the Planning Commission on an Immediate Urban
Service Area Line adjustment to the South of the area PID
##113-500-22400 to allow for more dense development of one
acre lots (Steiner property S of John LeFebvres Farm).
Kirmis went over NAC's Report of 2-19-92. Woolston
has asked for P C comments.
Swenson asked for comments from the Commission. The
line was put there for a purpose. Wheather the line should
be shifted is an Engineering item also. Koshak said we drew
this line on here principally for service to Ell; River. It
would provide a limited number of units that were available
to us at Elk River. The line has physical limitations if
moved South. We recommend not to shift that boundary.
Goenner asked how many units would fall on the other
side of the service line. Woolston said approximately 36.
Black said he feels this is a premature proposal. with
blocks of development with no way to serve the development by
the City.
Lewis said she too is in a<areement with this thinking.
It is not the first time we have had to deal with this lint..
Roskaft motioned to deny the request for the rezoning.
Goenner seconded the motion.
B atty asked for a clarification if it is a rezoning or
a Immediate Service Area Line Adjustment? nswor was
ultimately it would be rezoning. Motion carried unanimously
Thi- eau ^t will be .:added to the Council Agenda of 31/9/92.
Dennis Havel - (AXCLSON'S PROPERTY) PID 110 500-17,13100
Requests the Planninq Commissic.,,n to T"eview a sketch plan 0-f
plat of this property as allowed in our Subdivision Ordinance
adc;pt,;,,1 in =:=brua1_11 of 19e -,?1. This property is located in >e$c.
1-1-1. rwpi 121. R22", >T) t`.c. Ea- t ide of Nashua Avc, .
:;irmi c ije�nt ov<�r w)C's Report of 2--25-92 and said that.
ln,`" dC-'si qn ,,ia�s Wil.!' -;<casted Exhibit Cl `: C2,) Hcy
_ ::, t, : ,nr_r .T� . n°.o i l.z :hua Ii:1 + .! Limited
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 2/26/92 AT 8PM
- PAGE 6 -
the initial submission still holds true said Kirmis. Havel
is looking for comments from the PC, said Kirmis. Street
easements would be taken said Koshak and recorded by the
County Recorder.
Roskaft asked about the wetlands. Wetland laws take
care of wetlands. We can't utilize it for other than
intended said Havel.
Koshak showed a map where 90TH ST NE would come across
South of Havels property entirely in adjacent property. A
Portion of the road may have to go thru wetlands. 90TH could
be a minor collector street. Limitation to access to those
roads to be considered.
Diane Wiltermuth - Has a concern about that wetland, and
her concern is you are not blocking it up and everything
draining into her house.
Koshak said there; is a situation that needs to be looked
at. My concern is if you put 90TH thru there don't do it
without solving the water problems sad Wiltermuth.
Roskaft asked what is the length of the street on C-1
cul-de-sac? Approx 600' was the answer. He said it is in
violation of the 500' rule. Kirmis said it is beyond the
500' limitataon but ,justification is because of the wetland.
It is meant to show sketch of a possibility.
Havel said we came in with these plans so when they do
develop they can lay out into lA parcels. With the cul-de-
sac they can only divide them in half.
Saathoff said we are dedicating easement on these
property lines for future development because it was some
concern of Dave Licht when we set down with him. It is just
a sketch plan approval. We are willing to come in with
easements over wetlands. If we did a split today we would
have another- access coming. If it ever comes to water and
sewer we will dedicate these easements. In Mr Licht's plan
we like all of exhibit D.L. One acre parcels on C1 you need
1--1/2 acres to have an animal in the City of Ot.se:ao.
Koshak said it is difficult to accept dual driveways
although they are dedicated easements it appears the
developers do not intend to build a stitch of road in order
to develop the property. We want to put shared access to
Nashua. If a street is dedicated it is the City's
responsibility to provide services. Saathoff' said, if
improved. We would rather not give the 60'. This is
direction from Dave Licht and Koshak.
Lewis asked it the overlay plan should show
resubdivision plan? Kirmis said yes. we do like to see
resubdivISIon. The Long Range Urban Service Area may be
subject to change when sctller and watc-r come in.
Slac!< .::asked it it i the intent that these are two
driveways. !-] do�_sn't fc 1 it will r-�colvc- its." f. It 1.00k<.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 2/26/92 AT 8PM
- PAGE 7 -
people. Satthoff asked what he would recommend? Black said
he .just can't recommend this.
Satthoff said the easements allow the land owners to
develop if he wants to.
Roskaft said he finds that dedicating these streets to
the City .at this time will say the City will have to develop.
Saathoff said he agrees, but this if what was told us.
Lewis asked why you changed back to your original plat?
Because they felt it would work better was the answer. Lewis
asked what are Your reasons? Kirmis said the subdivision
alternate was meant to show a inward focus for the
development and streets. The wetland is an amenity that will
make these lots very attractive.
Goenner said he has a problem with a cul-de-sac idea.
It would be impossible to come out to 90TH eventually.
Lewis asked if 90TH St would come south of the property'7,
Koshak answered yes. He said that the ideal would be put in
a portion of 90TH and then go North. Much discussion was had
on driveways and development possibilities. If we got an
easement from the Power Co. would that be ok? Koshak said
you would need land or easement from Mrs Luconnic.
Earl Lieske Who lives on 85TH St across Page from Scharbers
new Country Ridge. He asked what will be done with that
intersection? I have a culvert and would it restrict flow?
Koshak said Page from 85TH to #39 is designated in the MSA
system when it is constructed it would be curb and gutter.
When it rains now I have water setting on my property. When
it rains it .sets there.
Roskaft said he thought that drainage would go into the
.lames Addition. What about that intersection of Page and
85TH? Koshak said mostly an intersection with Page stopping.
Roskaft asked what we did with Havel? Havel asked what
if we move the cul--de--sac to the North? Swenson said the
problem is you hit us cold and we can't react that fast.
What you have suggested doesn't look that good. If you want
to (Dome up with another plan we can look at it.
Saathoff asked if the PC would be happy with a cul--de-
sac? Swenson said he can't answer that. They haven't had
time: and are not in a position to suggest.
Koshak said that maybe the EAW can be gone over for
Country Ridge and the By -Laws for the 3/4/92 meeting. (Note'
EAW will be ready for distribution before the next PC Meeting
for th_ 31/18/92 Mectincto go over).
Black asked if the Commission has a Hearing date for a
formal Hearinp. on the Toning Ordinance? Answer- No
Kir-rn.i.s said he will take care of comments and present it
The Public Hearing will follow.
:s l:-ack is concerned about any conflict maybe we could snt
date. Set a policy for a cutoff date for
n_,i-: r _.:.1 r "r th^ PC Io the, material is in th PC han.d u
�r;:
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 2/26/92 AT 8PM
- PAGE 8 -
the information if not received prior to a certain time.
Swenson said the Thursday before the meeting is the cutoff.
Lewis motioned to have a two week lead time on any
information submitted to the PC. Roskaft seconded the
motion. Motion carried unanimously.
Discussion was had on Havel's project proposal on Nashua
(Axelson's Property). PC agreed that they want to be careful
of what develops.
Roskaft motioned to adjourn the meeting. Goenner
seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously. Adjourned
at 10=25PM.
JAWRLLES, SECRETARY
MINUTES BY ELAINE BEATTY, RECORDING SECRETARY
O
W
1. The preliminary plat is revised so that ali
NOTE= PAGE 5 AND PAGE 8 HAVE BEEN CORRECTED. PLEASE INERT
THESE IN YOUR MINUTES AND DESTROY OLD PAGES.
ELAINE
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 2/26/92 AT 8PM
- PAGE 5 -
Kirmis said the rezoning would follow adoption of the new
Zoning Ordinance. Wright Co allows Town and City Halls in
Ag area now.
Roskaft motioned to grant a Cond Use Permit for City
Hall PID #118-500-202100 in Sec 20, Twp 121, R23. Lewis
seconded the motion_
Black asked is -any of the public has comments on the
location of the City Hall?
Don Tholkes - What kind of building will it be? Date
and timeline? When will we have Police and Fire Dept.?
Mayor and Council are here and will comment on this.
Mayor Freske said we are looking at one building now and Fire
and Police much later. We hope to get started as soon as
Possible. $400,000.00 was the initial cost two years ago.
Motion carried with Goenner abstaining from voting.
5. MARK WOOLSTON OF MARCUS INVESTMENT GROUP - Requests an
opinion from the Planning Commission on an Immediate Urban
Service Area Line adjustment to the South of the area PID
#118-500-224400 to allow for more dense development of one
acre lots (Steiner property S of John LeFebvres Farm).
Kirmis went over NAC's Report of 2-19-92. Woolston
has asked for P C comments.
Swenson asked for comments from the Commission. The
line was put there for a purpose. Wheather the line should
be shifted is an Engineering item also. Koshak said we drew
this line on here principally for service to Elk River. It
would provide a limited number of units that were available
to us at Elk River. The line has physical limitations if
moved South. We recommend not to shift that boundary.
Goenner asked how many units would fall on the other
side of the service line. Woolston said approximately 36.
Black said he feels this is a premature proposal, with
blocks of development with no way to serve the development by
the City.
Lewis said she too is in agreement with this thinking.
It is not the first time we have had to deal with this line.
Roskaft motioned to deny the request for the rezoning.
Goenner seconded the motion.
Beatty asked for a clarification if it is a rezoning or
a Immediate Service Area Line Adjustment? Answer was
ultimately it would be rezoning. Motion carried unanimously
This request will be added to the Council Agenda of 3/9/92.
Dennis Havel - (AXELSON'S PROPERTY) PID 118-500-174300
Requests the Planning Commission to review a sketch plan of a
plat of this property as allowed in our Subdivision Ordinance
adopted in February of 1991. This property is located in Sec
17. Twp 121. R23 on the East side of Nashua Ave.
Kirmis went over NAC's Report of 2-25-92 and said that
the clustering design was su.pgest.ed (Exhibit C1 & C2). He
said that �-.he entrances onto Nashua should be limited ( See
@. ;'
'H, 4 " .'.i n d f P > i s .z r ' — r
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 2/26/92 AT 8PM
- PAGE 8 -
the information if not received prior to a certain time.
Swenson said the Thursday before the meeting is the cutoff.
Lewis motioned to have a two week lead time on any
information submitted to the PC. Roskaft seconded the
motion. Motion carried unanimously.
Discussion was had on Havel's project proposal on Nashua
(Axelson's Property). PC agreed that it will carefully
consider any proposed future developments for that area.
Roskaft motioned to adjourn the meeting. Goenner
seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously. Adjourned
at 10=25PM.
Q - -U,�J a::�
JAME R KOLLES, SECRETARY
MINUTES BY ELAINE BEATTY, RECORDING SECRETARY
W