03-04-92 PCIt' b��d faxt
Postransmittal memo 7621 F#of pages ►
t..t I r tfe V 1 JGl7V I-LHI\I\11\V {.VI II "I1JJ1Vt\ 1,11\...TES OF 3/4/92 AT 8PM
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Swenson called the meeting to order at 8.03 PM.
MEMBERS PRESENT=
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ING ROSKAFT RON BLACK, COUNCIL REP.
GENE GOENNER MARK WALLACE
CARL SWENSON,Cia.tr 40 -CHAIR KATHY LEWIS
DENNIS MC ALPINE
STAFFPRESENT
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ELAINE BEATTY DAVE LICHT
COUNCIL=
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DOUG LINDENFELSER NORMAN F FRESKE
LARRY FOURNIER
First on agenda was consideration of minutes of 2/19/92.
Roskaft motioned to approved the minutes as printed. Wallace
seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously.
Next was the minutes of 2/26/92. Black brought up that on
Page S, Item #5 the word dec_i_s_io,n, should be changed to
OPINION. (2nd line), as Woolston did not have a formal
request before the Commission. On Page #8 the second full
Paragraph, second sentence should read " PC agreed that it
will carefully consider any proposed future developments for
that area." Rask motioned to accept the minutes as
corrected. Goenner seconded the motion. Motion carried
unanimously.
Next was the review of some parts of the Zoning Ordinance.
Licht said he had a matter of discussion pertaining to
accessory buildings. 1,500 square feet was proposed in the
present ordinance. Licht said this is about 500' above what
most communities allow now. The Commission has said that the
accessory size should be according to lot size. Kirmis said
that instead of keying to any lot size. the suggestion is
that in areas that are one acre lots, 1,500 sq ft maximum be
allowed. 2,000 sq ft in 2-1/2 acre lots be allowed. The
rationale is if you are in an area where the land can be
future sub --divided down, you will create in the long run a
multitude of non -conforming uses. The concept is to tie it
to a minimum lot size. Latitude is still they are given the
Cond. Use Permit. The County set 2,000 sq. ft as a limit,
said Licht. What is being proposed in the A-1 District, the
maximum is 1,500 square ft for a single family house. A-2,
1,500 square feet, R-1 Riverfront is 2,000 square feet. R-2
2-1/2 Minimum acres is 2,000 square feet. R-3 is 1,500 sq
feet. This is proposed as automatically allowable. Where do
hobby farms fall into this? Any farms of ten or more acres
will also be exempt (as rural). Licht gave an example of
larger buildings and activities tend to spring up on one acre
lots.
Swenson said we had asked that Bob Kirmis come back with
something on accessory buildings for the Planning Commission
to .Look at.. Roskaft said what do we do with larvae buildings
on 2'' 1/2-.icrc�c when they subdivide? Rask asked if you don't
ay Li'l::' most they can ha,,/e i<' 1 ,500 a 'It when they lhave an
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 3/4/92 AT 8PM
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acre lot? Licht said 2,000 square ft of accessory space
for a one acre lot, the planning Commission would have to
approve. We would have the say of the placement of the
building. Licht said very definitely deal with the location
considerations. You have that say. Wallace asked if without
putting it under a CUP can you tell them that when the lot is
divided that they have to change the size of the building to
fit the Ordinance. 'Licht said you can't do it without making
it a specialty situation. The basic rule of thumb is grant
that approval thinking of the worse possible scenario. You
have to tie that into a CUP or a Interim Use.
Fournier asked if we are sure we want to include the
garage in the 1,500 sq. ft space? Licht answered what we
have said now is one accessory building without a CUP. You
ha%.e to realize that this applies to single family detached
use. Now the Ordinance is structured is to protect those
areas and maintain the openness (not a lot of buildings). In
Lakeville, in fifteen years we have changed that provision
five or six times. We are proposing the best we can do right
now. It is a threshold to start from, said Licht. If there
is a problem, change it. They are still asking for a CUP or
interim Use Permit for more space. Licht said he will check
with Padzwill as to how it will work CUP or Interim Use
Permit. It is a legal technicality said Licht.
Black stated he found out something this last week in
the mortgage market they will not (NOT) consider the
accessory building as adding any value to the property. The
buyer cannot finance the accessory building they have to come
in with cash, you can't get financing on it. Licht said the
Co. assessor doesn't follow those guidelines. If you grant a
larger building permit you make the applicant disclose what
use will be in the building. Licht said he needs some
direction from the Commission on this.
( See File PC3992 )
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 3/4/92 AT 8PM
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Wallace stated he feels 1,500 sq ft as a maximum is what
he feels it should be. (leave it as it is not change for lot
size). Discussion was had on larger lot sizes.
Rask brought up the $150.00 CUP fee for the Planning
Commission Hearing.
Roskaft said as he understands it, it is as follows:
1. Any detached single family dwelling property in the
city, (11,500 sca ft of assessory space is allowed without
CUP.
2. R-1 and R-2 areas suggestion is up the limit to
2,000 sq. ft. anything above that is with a CUP.
Licht explained.
McAlpine said he feels $150.00 is a little high for the
Planning Commission Fee for CUP. Black said this is not the
issue right now.
Swenson said there have been two opinions explained and
we need some information from the rest of the members.
Roskaft motioned to go with the 1500 sq ft for one acre
lots and 2,000 sq ft for bigger lots for the size of the
accessory buildings. Rask seconded the motion.
Lewis asked if with the 2.000 sq ft the rest of the
wording would be the same? Answer, yes. If we are going
with 2.000 sq ft would you like to include where on the lot
and can we ask them to move it if subdivided? Licht said
anything that is allowed with a permit is allowed. The only
control you would have is if they put the building in such a
position that when they divide the lot it is on the lot line.
then you could make them move it.
Wallace said he feels that if someone wants that space
they will be willing to come in for a CUP.
Much more discussion of Zoning and accessory buildings
and future splits was had.
Black said the motion currently on the floor recognizes
various lot sizes and discussion of subdivision of lots has
taken 2S minutes. It strikes me that what Licht is proposing
is reasonable.
Goenner had a zoning question. Is it possible that we
can state they may have to tear the building down if they
want to sub -divide? Licht said he dosen't see how we can do
that. Goenner explained more.
Swenson asked for a vote and commented his feeling is we
are turning handsprings to meet a condition that I feel is
quite large. I can't believe that everyone else is that far
off from meeting requirements of their people. I am against
this motion said Swenson.
Rognli from the floor spoke on this.
A vote was taken and three were in favor of the motion,
Roskaft, Rask and McAlpine. Four members were opposed,
Goenner. Wallace, Lewis and Swenson_ Motion did not carry.
tad he did not need a motion . onJ.y direction .
Wallace motioned to keep the zoning as written in the
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF 3/4/92 AT 8PM
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present, proposed zoning ordinance 1,500 sq ft maximum
accessory space. Lewis seconded the motion. Motion carried
with three opposed, McAlpine, Roskaft and Rask and four
member for, Wallace, Goenner, Lewis and Swenson.
Licht said any new subdivisions need to have tarred
drives and other subdivisions will at a later date and all
businesses on a gravel drive do not need to be paved.
Black said he feels that any businesses fronting on
gavel should be paved. Freske said he agreed.
Licht explained as Goenner had a question paving of
existing subdivisions. Licht said only on one acre lots.
Commercial properties will have to paved also said Licht.
Licht will provide the Commission and the Council with
the Attorney General's Study on Adult Uses. Licht warned
that the Document is straight forward and blunt. Licht asked
when can we set a date for a Public Hearing? The regular
scheduled Planning Commission Meeting of 3/18/92 will be
cancelled and a new one scheduled for 3/25/92 at 8PM and at
that time a Public Hearing will be held on the Otsego Zoning
Ordinances. Beatty will notice meeting change and Hearing.
BY-LAWS (Consideration)
Swenson said that the Sub -committee formed the By -Laws,
members were Wallace, Lewis and Swenson. Lewis stated that
these have changed since we drafted them. There are a few
additions. 1) Considering the Alternate Planning Commission
position. 2) Position of Secretary, we decided the position
of Secretry could assist in record keeping. Kathy went over
the rules and order.
Roskaft suggested that the Chairman be changed to
Chairperson and Vice Chairman be changed to Vice Chairperson.
He said we do not want to show martialality towards sexes.
It will be changed to Chair and Vice Chair person per
Licht's suggestion.
Licht reviewed and suggested that on meeting attendance
that most Commissions have it written that if you miss so
many meetings in a row you are off the Commission. Most
Commissions have three meetings that are unexcused, or 1/3 of
the meetings for the year as a criteria.
Swenson said they discussed it in Committee and didn't
want to go with it. They feel they don't have an attendance
problem and if there was a problem the Planning Commission
Members would talk to the person.
Freske said he feels even if you are a volunteer, you
should call in and be excused. Licht said the one advantage
of having it in the By -Laws is it takes some of the pressure
off.
Blacl; said he believes the Commission should do their
own policing and it is a real easy thing now when there is
not a problem. Decisions made by these people effect a lot.
of
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people said Black.
Rask motioned to add #18 to the By ---Laws saying if you
miss three consecutive or 1/3 of the total yearly meetings,
you are automatically off the Commission.
Pg. 1 - Change Staff Secretary to "Recording Secretary".
Black asked why #15 is in the By -Laws? He said he feels it
should come under conflict of interest rules. He suggested
to take a real close look at the wording here. (Have it
comply 15 should read. "No member having a conflict of
interest in an etc. to end".
Licht said if the Members don't excuse themselves, the
matter is tabled and the City Attorney decides.
Add #3 Chair is included as a voting member.
A vote will be taken on the BY --Laws after the changes are
made and all Planning Commission Members have copies of same.
Rask asked about the April 9th P.C. training meeting.
Everyone is still going.
Swenson said it has been brought to his attention that
we voted on moving the boundary line for the Long Range Urban
Service Area earlier than allowed, before the Hearing and he
had heard some complaints that people may not have realized
they were able to speak at the hearing.
Goenner stated he had a problem with it. Lewis said
nobody came forward to speak. Roskaft said as he understands
it the Chairman asked a couple of times if anyone had
anything to say. Freske said Floyd Goenner was at the
meeting and he talked to him and he said what he wanted to
say at the Hearing.
Licht said what we are talking about is a Comprehensive
Plan Amendment, not a Zoning change. Black said he was at
the Hearing and he heard what was said. They keep talking
about a Zone change. It is only a change in the Zoning of
future use and the owner of the land has to initiate it.
Licht agreed with Black. Rask said that all we are doing ic,
moving the line further to the West. Goenner rescinded his
P.C. seat to become an audience member. He told the
Commission that at some point you could change the Taxing
Districts to match the Comprehensive Plan. His father would
like the line to stop at 83RD. Now it's Ag and the road ends
at 77TH Street and there is a stretch that is not suitable
for the four per forty. We would like to have it stopped at
83RD which would encompass the City for the New City Hall
Site and would enable them to have equal assessing for each
side of the road.
Wallace said when we discussed this it had nothing to do
with tax base, only to allow a smoother transition. Taxing
can be Placed pretty much where we want it to be. Much more
discussion was had by the Commission and Council on this.
Rognii said that there wer.a People here at that meeting that
weren't sure of the procc-dure. Rognli said it did not comp=
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MINUTES OF 3/4/92 AT 8PM
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out clearly to the audience. You need to let them know they
are welcome to speak. Moving the line affords the
opportunity to pursue four per forty if they want. Roskaft
motioned to adjourn the meeting. Wallace seconded the
motion. Motion carried unanimously.
JAMES KOLLES, SECRETARY ^�
By, Elaine Beatty, Recording Secretary
eb