07-07-93 PCSEE FILE - TB-101CM.DOC
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 7/7/93
AT 8PM - PAGE 1 -
Chair, Carl Swenson called the meeting to order at 8PM. The
following Commission members were present:
ING ROSKAFT CARL SWENSON RON BLACK/CR
ARLEEN NAGEL/ALT GENE GOENNER BRUCE RASK
The following Council Members were present:
Norman F Freske, Mayor, Larry Fournier, Council
The following Staff Members were present:
Bob Kirmis, NAC, Larry Koshak, Engr, Elaine Beatty and
Judy Hudson
Minutes of the 6/16/93 Meeting were brought up for
approval. Arleen Nagel brought up a few changes. On Page 2
it should read "RASK" not Vasseurs, and the date on the end
page is wrong.
Goenner motioned to approve the minutes as corrected_
Rask seconded the motion. Motion carried unanimously_
AGENDA ITEM #3: Charlie Christopherson - (Dennis
Havel's Subdivision) "Dean Havel Dynamic Estates" in Section
17, Township 121, Range 23, PID #118-500-174300, sketch plan
review (Continued from 6/16/93)
Kirmis - Stated that this is an informal sketch plan
Review and the intent is to get opinions and feelings on the
sketch plan for the Subdivision. Kirmis summarized the
proposal. It is a 4 -lot subdivision. It has A-1 Zoning and
to be changed to A-2 (4 per 40) would be required. He
explained NAC's Report of June 1S, 1993. He read from NAC's
Report Pages 1-14, Page 3. 90TH Street has been added to the
plan as requested by the Planning Commission. Mr Koshak,
City Engr. and Mr Christopherson, Surveyor attended the
meeting to answer any questions. (Koshak explained 90TH
Street) There are power lines exisiting on the property now
and they were discussed.
SWENSON - Asked if the road is S of the easement, then
does the property N of the line have access to that road?
KOSHAK - The easement would be relocated to the property
line abutting the existing easement.
Swenson asked for further questions.
ROSKAFT - Why couldn't the lines for the road be
established now, rather than later on?
KOSHAK - Because we are dealing with the parcel only at
this time. It could be acquired, but it would have to be
considered by the Council. It wouldn't appear that there is
enough population to warrant that.
CHRISTOPHERSON - The power line is 3' south of the
property line.
KOSHAK - The easement for the power lines is on the
neighboring.property. There is an existing power line
easement across there.
GOENNER - What would happen if the property to the South
wouldn't develop and this guy wanted to re -subdivide. He was
told it couldn't re -subdivide without the road.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 7/7/93
AT 8PM -PAGE 2 -
SWENSON - With the preliminary approval of this concept,
what commitment do we have. This is only concept. They will
be coming in for Preliminary and Final Plat at the same time.
CHRISTOPHERSON - Dean Havel will be acquiring the back
piece of land behind his property and he lives there now.
GOENNER - We are dealing with a third party here for
development. Roskaft and Black - said no we aren't.
ROSKAFT - Motioned to approve the concept site plan as
presented by the Staff. Nagel seconded the motion. Motion
carried unanimously.
AGENDA ITEM 4. Dave Plude - Amendment to the Conditions
of the Subdivision to allow a second driveway entrance from
Co Rd #39. Section 16, Twp 121, Range 23 - 118-500-164403 -
R-1 Zoning.
Kirmis explained from NAC Report of June 21, 1993. He
explained the driveway issue and Wright Co's position on
limited driveways. He read from Page 3 of the report. The
traffic has more than doubled in five years. He recited
policy from the Comp plan. On page 3, setting a precedent
was discussed and Kirmis discussed Pg 4 of NRC's report.
It is the opinion of NAC, that no physical changes have
occurred to warrant a change in Subdivision approval and
traffic volumes have doubled in the last five years, Kirmis
said. NAC has recommended denial of this request. Page 5 of
NAC's Report, conditions should be upheld if the Commission
should decide to allow this request. (1-8 of Page 5)
Kirmis noted that we have received a letter from Dave
Montebello, Wright County Engineer and the County has
recommended the original conditions of the Sub -division be
upheld.
DENNIS DALEN - Attorney representing Dave Plude.
He stated that the County said that they wouldn't do it
unless the City will, etc. This reporting is not well done.
(He discussed the Plude property ad an article in the Star
News.) He said he had tried to contact the reporter, but she
hadn't returned his call.
Mr Plude owned two pieces of property when he came into
the Planning Commission. He wanted to move the line to make
two regular shaped lots. He already had two accesses to the
property, he explained. With the common access, we are
discussing putting the driveway to the center lot line. He
explained more. We have a permit with the County that they
have already issued. I may have indicated to the County that
the Council agrees, but I thought that is what I heard at the
Council meeting. One person wants to put one home on this
lot. We are asking to set up the driveway in the spot agreed
upon in the original subdivision of this property.
RASK - Prior to the original split did lots one and two
have separate PID numbers? Answer. yes.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 7/7/93
8PM - PAGE 3 -
DALEN - questioned Plude having two pieces of land and
was made to subdivide to straighten a lot line.
KIRMIS - Stated that thru sub -division, a newly created
lot was formed.
SWENSON - Let us backup, This is a Public Hearing. He
asked if the proper publications and notices and postings had
been done. Beatty answered yes.
STEVE JOHNSON - a representative for Mr Lund. They had
entered into a purchase agreement prior to the platting.
They are concerned that their lot is going to be changed.
Tom Ticen wants to purchase the lot from Mr Plude. They
signed the purchase agreement on April 10, 1993. He is
living in an apartment. He wants to build a house. His
purchase agreement has expired and he needs a decision soon.
DAN PLUDE - Who was with Mr & Mrs Plude stated that his
comments are the same as the attorney. They are OK with the
idea of putting the driveway where the City has asked them to
put it. The County Engineer did give them a permit.
RODBY - Who lives to the West of the lot did not see a
problem with it.
ROGER ENGSINGER - Of Halls Addition said he is wondering
if this was further sub -divided would it have the same access
or more? He is concerned because he has three small kids and
they are along the road often.
KIRMIS - Are you on #39? He said Ohland & 39. The City
is primarily trying to limit high volume road access.
Individual lot access would be to the local street, brought
to intersect with the County road.
ENSINGER - On that piece of property, I own the corner
lot. South of me he was approached about an easement. Mr
Plude came to me and I sent him to the neighbor.
KIRMIS - The City would discourage single family road
access to high volume roads.
SCOTT RODBY - I don't see the logic here. It is the
same number of cars one way or another. I don't see the
difference.
SWENSON - One of the problems is that any Ordinance you
pass has to fit into the policy, etc/
DAN PLUDE - When they originally came in they came in
for a change in the lot line, not sub -division. That is a
lot with a conceptual plan. That is all it is.
TICEN - In order for all the land to get developed in
the future, Mr Lund and I would have to agree to develop it
together. Is that right?
KIRMIS - If you take the re --subdivision literally, that
is true.
DALEN - If it were to be developed according to this
conceptual plan you would have thirteen lots on this plan.
There is a driveway on this already.
At this point the Hearing was closed and brought back to
the Planning Commission.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 7/7/93
AT 8PM - PAGE 4 -
RASK - I have concerns. I understood it was a sub-
division.
BLACK - It was totally different from what was there to
start with. In the process there was some conditions
attached to it.
ROSKAFT - When we voted as a commission, we voted on a
Sub -division and the common driveway would eventually become
a street.
SWENSON - It was two driveways which would become a
street.
ROSKAFT - If we were to approve separate driveways, can
we wipe out the future Sub -division? This future subdivision
is because if sewer and water become available they can
subdivide.
RASK - The man that is looking at buying it, why are we
asking one-half of the driveway coming from the neighbor?
Why can't it all be on his property? Discussion of the
driveway was had.
KIRMIS - The re -subdivision plan is not a subdivision
plan. It is a concept. We want to see that it can work.
SWENSON - Is the problem here the common driveway?
DALEN - Mr Lund dosen't want to move his driveway. All
the conditions Mr Kirmis put down address this.
RASK - If they are placing the road where we are asking,
would we deny access for the Lunds like we do for Havel's. ?
KIRMIS - The intent is to get all single family access
off of #39.
MR ANDERSON, Atty. for Lund - (P.C. agreed he can speak,
even though the Hearing is closed). Mr Lund agrees that his
access will be eliminated and he is in agreement, if it is
developed.
FOURNIER - Mr Plude should be allowed to speak also.
PLUDE - I did not come in and ask for rezoning or sub-
division. I asked to adjust the lot line. I was told I had
to subdivide it. Those two PID's are still the same. The
boundaries have changed. Is there any other future
conditions?
SWENSON - The Staff recommends denial. What does the
Commission wish?
SWENSON - polled the Commission.
ROSKAFT - Felt the rezoning had to be done because it
was correcting the lot because it was in a certain zone. It
was presented to me as a concept to be used in the future.
If the drive is where it is going to be, the property owners
could put a drive on the property line and go out as they
choose. I'm disturbed in creating a precedent here.
BLACK - Stated he is just listening
GOENNER - For lots to be sold now and get a building
permit, the lot would have to share a driveway. Lunds, when
they purchased their property were unaware of this fact. Mr
elude said they wanted ,a simple lot line adjustment.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 7/7/93
AT 8PM - PAGE 5 -
KIRMIS - Read from the Subdivision regulations. The
property was previously Zoned Ag which did not allow for the
density.
RASK - I have a question. We asked them to re -
subdivide. Did we designate where the road would be. Where
did we propose to put this driveway? Koshak explained where
the road was to be placed.
RASK - If the driveway would have been changed during
the sub -division, it would have prevented these problems.
KIRMIS - Co. road #39 has road access.
RASK - Would Lund buy this property if he had seen this
re -subdivision plan?
DALEN explained.
RASK - This land locked piece of property will not go
away.
ROSKAFT - Read from Dave Montebello's letter from
Wright County Hwy Dept.
NAGEL - Said she is concerned with setting a precedent.
Why wasn't the Lund driveway moved right away?
ROSKAFT - Wanted to table action.
SWENSON - One gentleman has a purchase agreement in
limbo and we have a responsibility to make a decision.
ROSKAFT - The County Surveyor can set up the driveway
where it should be. The county has already issued a driveway
permit.
RASK - I have a plat here that is incomplete. He spoke
more on this.
NAGEL - What happens if we OK this drive where we want
it?
ANDERSON - Mr Lund does not want to move his driveway.
DALEN - For the record, Mr Plude has offered to move Mr.
Lund's driveway, but Mr Lund declined.
RASK - I find it hard to deny Mr Ticen's driveway
permit.
RASK motioned to allow Mr Ticen's driveway in that spot
adjacent to the lot line - On Lot 2, B1 1, at the lot line
between Lot one and two.
GOENNER - Seconded the Motion.
There was discussion=
NAGEL - Are you including the Conditions from NAC's
Report? Yes, eight conditions on Page 5, of NAC's Report
RASK AND GOENNER agreed.
ROSKAFT - If you deny the subdivision modification and
that takes care of itself.
RASK - withdrew his motion. GOENNER withdrew his
second.
DALEN.- I'm confused. We are asking for a modification
of the subdivision.
BLACK -- Isn't Roskaft saying based on what has been
done, Wright. County will tell them where they can cross the
ditch?
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 7/7/93
AT 8PM - PAGE 6 -
ROSKAFT - Motioned that the Plude Subdivision
modification be denied. Rask seconded the motion (For
discussion purposes)
GOENNER - If they a rn'tlbelagto Put problem the driveway in the
right location, it
ANDERSON - The owner of Lot 1, feels he is in
compliance.
NAGEL - Asked Mr Lund when he became aware of the joint
access?
LUND - He had to move his garage 1S'. When he came into
the City to get a permit he found out about the re-
subdivision plan and driveway. He will have to move his
septic and trees if he has to move his driveway.
KOSHAK - Said give them the permit. The County now has
to take there step. I still recommend putting it on the
driveway line. It is the County's issue now.
DALEN - Asked if we could add that Building Permit be
able to be issued.
Motion carried unanimously.
SWENSON SAID 7/12/93 IS THE COUNCIL AGENDA FOR THIS
AGENDA ITEM #5 - MARY DARE BAUFIELD DRIVING RANGE (Cont. from
6/16/93) NOTE= This may not be complete -
his - Stated that this issue is incomplete.
ntinue the Hearing to July 21,
ROSKAFT motioned to co
1993 if not acted on at that time it will not be continued
Motion carried
further. Goenner seconded the motion.
unanimously.
AGENDA ITEM #6 - SHERRY WHITE (John Anderson's property)
Section 17, Twp 121, Range 23, SE of Co RD #39 and Nashua
(Sketch Plan review of the Subdivision)
This will be on the Agenda of Commission on 7/21/93
AGENDA ITEM #7 - ANY OTHER PLANNING COMMISSION BUSINESS
SWENSONThisSaid
is forhas
theinformation
wateroacbest
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practices.
should read thru it and pass it around.
BLACK - The Planning Commission reviewed the Wright
County Water Management Plan and reported to the Council.
The Council accepted the report. Also, the Intersection of
County Rd #39 and Parrish, at the last meeting the Council
gave the OK for 4 --way stop with the flasher if the City
Attorney and Engineer agrees.
KIRMIS - Update on the Wild and Scenic Ordinance. The
DNR has proposed a change in the rule to allow no impervious
surface requirements as long as it upholds the best water
management practices. There will be a hearing on this.
There has been some talk of allowing temporary mobile
homes where homes are being reconstructed. Would the Some
nrfinent to allow it?
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF 7/7/93
AT 8PM - PAGE 7 -
discussion was had on this, Black explained. The Planning
Commission generally agreed.
KIRMIS - Possible discussion of accessory buildings and
the Ord. is coming up in the future.
ROSKAFT motioned to adjourn the meeting. Nagel seconded
the motion. Motion carried unanimously.
MARK WALLACE, qtCRETARY
MINUTES BY: Elaine Beatty, Recording Secretary
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PC= P.C.
Mayor/Council/Perrault
Olson
EDA
Licht
Radzwill
Koshak