11-16-94 PCPC8394.WPS
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF NOVEMBER 16,
1994 AT 8PM, IN THE CITY OF OTSEGO, COUNTY OF WRIGHT, STATE OF
MINNESOTA.
REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
NOVEMBER 16, 1994 - 8PM
1 CHAIR CARL SWENSON WILL CALL MEF.TIN 7 TO ORDER:
Chair Swenson called the meeting to order at 8PM.
ROLL CALL:
CARL SWENSON ING ROSKAFT GENE GOENNER
MARK WALLACE BRUCE RASK JIM KOLLES, ABSENT
DENNIS MCALPINE ARLEEN NAGEL/ALT RON BLACK/CR, ABSENT
Staff present was Bob Kirmis, NAC, Larry Koshak, Engr, and Elaine Beatty,
Deputy Clerk/Zoning Administrator.
Council Members present were:
Doug Lindenfelser, Larry Fournier, Council and Mayor Norman F Freske
PLAN TO ESTABLISH A TRANSPORTATION PLAN FOR PLANNING
DISTRICT #4 AS DEFINED 1\ THE COMPREHENSIVEPLAN.
SwensonChair -• the Hearing and how is it is conducted.
Elaine Beatty noted the proper publications had been completed.
Larry Koshak explained the concept plan was directed to be prepared by the City Council.
Purpose to delineate a traffic pattern. The district is commercial property and guided for
Commercial. Street location is a forerunner for development of the property. Actual
development may change slightly the location of the street. After this Hearing it will be
sent to the Council for adoption as a guide to the Comp Plan. It is to let landowners and
residents know where the streets will be located:
In our MSA Plan there are two locations of streets that will serve as access roads to
Hwy101, interconnected with major arterial streets. Quaday on MSA and will extend
South to Co#37 thru Ed Dauphinais property. There is another street being built that will
connect to Co #36. The purpose of traffic pattern is to reduce the traffic on Hwy101 and
off of Hwyl01. MSA road has to connect to County, State Aid Hwy or State Trunk Hwy.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF
NOVEMBER 16, 1994 PAGE 2
We are looping it thru the street to the North of Co39 and connecting to 96th Street in
Mississippi Shores. We have shown additional roads that will be taken off that. We have
considered distances of the accesses off Co42. A new County plan is being formulated.
Our plan will comply with the County requirement on distances for access. On Co42
North of Co39, there will be an access on Park Avenue, 94th Street and 96th Street.(three
accesses) Capabilities of - right in right out - to the North of Co39 on Richard LeFebvres
property. There is a culvert there now. There is an opening between those two entrances
in the islands on Co39. A Light will be put in on Co39 when demand warrants it and that
access will be closed. He explained the access to the Church. The Bank exit is on 88th
Street. Larry explained the road South of the present 88th Street that is built. We can
extend MSA road East of 85th Street. Larry showed how we can connect that to 88th St.
The proposed Zoning to the North of Richard LeFebvres land is Residential. This is Plan
A, we prefer it and recommend it to the P.C. The second alternative is similar, North of
85th Street. South of 85th Street, it shows an alternate route opposite of the present
school. It would come North to 85th to the East. The objection to that route is, it would
bring the traffic pattern out to the intersection of the school and the potential increase in
traffic with the school. The wetland crossing and creek is why we have the second
alternative. There may be opposition from the DNR and there may have to be a bridge
instead of a culvert. Presently, we recommend Alt. #1.
Larry showed another exhibit. There is property below the flood protection elevation of
862 ft and the purple is 0 to 2 ft below the regular flood elevation. The green is 3 to 4 ft
and red is 4 to 6 ft and the orange is 6 ft plus. The road aligns to that. The white is out of
the floodplain and is developable as it exists. Alt #2 avoids the largest fill areas.
Larry asked for any questions.
Bob Kirmis reiterated that this is intended to be a guide for development, a step beyond
the land use plan. They are not unchangeable, they can be slightly altered. It is a general
plan as to how we would like to see the streets laid out.
HEARING OPENED TO THE PUBLIC.
WALLY ODELL - 26 Cannon. A couple questions. These referred to MSA funds for
these roads.
Larry Koshak said there are some of the roads that are MSA and he showed on the map
where they lie.
Wally Odell asked if those funds are unlimited or annual grant, how do we get these
funds?
Larry Koshak explained the MSA Funds and how they work.
Wally Odell asked if you have to spend the funds.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF
NOVEMBER 169 1994 PAGE 3
Larry Koshak said they encourage you to spend the money. Twenty five percent (25%) is
allowed for the City to take for maintenance and operations. ($7 5,000.00 a yr)
The rest is or construction projects. We have $350,000.00 available. We have done very
little this year. (88th Street) You can bond ahead of time for additional work. They want
to change the rules to allow cities to use money into the future. A lot of cities do not use
the funds. Cities like Otsego (developing cities) can use more money.
Wally Odell asked if the landowners have to pay any of the cost of the road?
Larry Koshak said the city has adopted the policy that the landowner in a commercial
property has to pay for a 9 ton road. Any additional and MSA will pay.
Wally Odell asked if the funds that represent MSA, that is not a part that you are assessed.
Larry Koshak said no.
Wally Odell had a general concern, there is section 3/4 of a mile from Hwy101 to Co42, I
see three North - South parallel roads in a short distance. That seems somewhat
excessive. We probably need a good East - West route. The lower portion, Mary Rose
Dare property,(MRD) they talked about the cost of improving the floodplain land, being
prohibitive if it needed to be brought up to standards. You will have land for Industrial
Development that will be very expensive. When I look at Elk River, Ramsey and Dayton,
we cannot compete with those communities with high priced land. It may sit there for a
long time. It may not fill up with development until the surrounding communities develop.
Farmers will put their land for possible development into green acres.
Bruce Rask said we are not putting those roads in. It is a proposed road, so developers
know where the road will go.
Wally Odell asked if it will only be put in if the landowner themselves develop.
Larry Koshak said right. He talked about the County Meeting concerning a ten year
traffic plan. Otsego is well laid out. East-West roads basically are patterned. We have a
good up and down cross pattern. Co42 is a minor arterial. We have to have an interior
road to access onto Co42 on this type of road. That is the reason for internal access
roads. Co37 is proposed to be constructed to Co19. Nashua Avenue will be constructed
to the freeway where the new bridge will cross Crow River on Co30 in Hennepin Co.
There is a plan in approximate one mile patterns. It will take place when development
occurs. State funds will be used when owners develop.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF
NOVEMBER 16, 1994 PAGE 4
Mayor Norman F Freske explained the MSA funds can only be used in connection with
Co roads and State Aid Roads. The County's plan will be out by spring. Co19 will be a
major road all the way South. He talked about the grid and MSA filling in between.
Larry Koshak talked about development and the difficulty of lowland development.
Wally Odell asked if a developer bought a farm in there and had a different idea for roads,
then what?
Larry Koshak said it is a conceptual plan, not concrete. We do have a piece of 88th in
already. To take 88th Street off MSA the State would have to be paid.
Larry Fournier asked if one land owner wanted to develop his property, would you put the
entire road in? Would you force all land owners to put in a road?
Larry Koshak said if they plat the property the roads would have to be solved. The City
should control the pattern of Development.
Bruce Rask said we put in a portion to take care of Dares. If Kolles wanted to do it they
would put their road in.
Larry Koshak explained, you will fill in and have an orderly road. This plan would address
all that. Without it we have nothing to debate.
Vern Heidner said there are some properties that are landlocked and couldn't develop
now.
Larry Koshak agreed and explained that the Veterinarian and Cota's gave up their access
on Hwyl01.
No one else wished to be heard. Hearing was closed and brought back to P.C.
Chair Swenson asked if any members had any questions?
John Darkenwald asked about Ed Dauphinais' land, what is happening?
Larry Koshak said it is on the 1995-96 list. Mr Dauphinais has received a mining permit
and is in the process of constructing the road. The issue of gas line will come up when the
road is built in 1995-96.
John Darkenwald said they were meeting with Rogers and they are trying for April of 1996
for a date.
Ing Roskaft asked if the link thru the Dauphinais property has been finalized?
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF
NOVEMBER 16, 1994 PAGE 5
Larry Koshak said it is but easements are not yet procured.
Ing Roskaft asked for the finished road width.
The finished width of the road 0' and 2 -12' and 2-6' lanes. A rural section of rd.
Chair Swenson asked if anyone else wished to speak.
BRUCE RASK MOTIONED TO AMEND THE OTSEGO COMP PLAN TO
ESTABLISH A TRANS PLAN FOR PLANNING DIST #4. MARK WALLACE
SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Chair Swenson opened the Hearing:
Bob Kirmis stated that Vern Heidner appeared before the Commission with a concern on
campaign signs. The present period of time is relatively short. Staff looked into it, the
display time was extended from 30to 60 days. There is a State requirement. Signs can be
displayed from August and lasts till ten (10) days following. the elections.
Hearing opened to the Public:
Chair Swenson asked if anyone wished to be heard.
Suzanne Ackerman said if you have the signs up for more than 30 days it starts to look
junky. She felt 30 days is more than enough time for people to see the signs.
Vern Heidner said you cannot walk the City in 30 days. There is not enough daylight.
Anyone else wish to be heard?
No one did
HEARING CLOSED AND BROUGHT BACK TO P.C.:
Dennis McAlpine asked who is responsible for picking up the signs that are out there?
Elaine Beatty said whoever has the signs are responsible.
Gene Goenner asked if it could be made a misdemeanor?
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF
NOVEMBER 16, 1994 PAGE 6
Bob Kirmis said there is a procedure for complaints on signs.
Dennis McAlpine asked Vern Heidner how long it took him to take down the signs?
Vern said starting Sept 13th (10 day period he couldn't work at it) He went until election
and didn't get thru about 250 houses. He agreed with Suzanne, they do look junky. No
one likes it better then him when they come down. It took a day to get signs down.
Norman F Freske said it also took him one day. It took a lot long to get permission to put
them up.
GENE GOENNER MOTIONED TO AMMEND THE CITY ZONING ORD. ON
CAMPAIGN DISPLAY. DENNIS MCALPINE SECONDED THE MOTION.
MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
5. DISCUSSION OF A JOINT P. ../ .O TN I . MEETING REGARDING
IMMEDIATE URBAN SERVICE AREA, ON DECEMBER 7, 1994 AT 8PM
REGULAR P.C. MEETING,
Mayor Freske explained we had a couple of requests stating we should meet with P.C.
Bob Kirmis said if P.C. wants to think about it, the city is getting development pressure.
The plan was written with Elk River for sanitary sewer service. How do we want to
handle this? Where do we want to focus? We are looking for direction. The Council
would like to discuss this with the P.C.
Ing Roskast asked if we had filled in the area?
Bob Kirmis said not complete, there are a lot of chunks. Question is, where do we want
to expand the Immediate Service Area?
Ing Roskaft said that is a big question. The seven County Metro area is wrestling with the
same question. They would like to see more infilling before going into the rural areas.
How can we provide sewer and water for our urban areas? How soon will we run into
problems?
Bob Kirmis said one option is not to expand the Service area and force infilling.
More discussion on sewer, etc.
ING ROSKAFT MOTIONED TO HAVE THIS DISCUSSION AND HAVE IT AS
THE LAST ITEM ON THE AGENDA. BRUCE RASK SECONDED THE
MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF
NOVEMBER 16, 1994 PAGE 7
6. ANY OTHER PLANNING COMMISSION BUSINESS:
Gene Goenner asked about the Snowmobile Ordinance. Discussion was had on this.
7. ADJOURN*
ING ROSKAFT MOTIONED TO ADJOURN. MARK WALLACE SECONDED
THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
GENE GOENNER, SECRETARY
MINUTES BY: Elaine Beatty, Recording Secretary.
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