09-06-95 PCCITY OF OTSEGO
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
SEPTEMBER 6, 1995
8 P
OTSEGO CITY HALL
1. Chair Carl Swenson will call meeting to order.
Chair Swenson called the September 6, 1995 Planning Commission Meeting to order at
8:05 PM.
ROLL CALL: Carl Swenson, Mark Wallace, Ing Roskaft, Jim Kolles, Eugene Goenner,
Arleen Nagel, Richard Nichols.
Excused Absence: Bruce Rask
Staff: Andy MacArthur, Attorney; Larry Koshak, Engineer; Bob Kirmis, Assistant
Planner; Elaine Beatty, Clerk/Zoning Administrator; Judy Hudson, Deputy Clerk; Carol
Olson, Secretary.
Ing Roskaft motioned to approve the Planning Commission Minutes of August 16,
1995 with noted correction. Seconded by Jim Kolles. All in favor. Motion carried.
Discussion: Chair Swenson noted on page 4, Item 6, strike out request is as follows.
Chair Swenson welcomed everyone and explained the Public Hearing Process.
Opening remarks from staff.
Bob Kirmis went over the history of this request. Christ Lutheran Church's original
request was for INS Zoning of 10.3 acres. The Planning Commission recommended
approval on a split vote. At the June 26, 1995 City Council Meeting, the Council
expressed concern with the scale of the proposal and the impact on the tax base. The
applicant withdrew their request and revised the Preliminary Plat. The Preliminary Plat
now shows a scaling down to a proposed 6.3 acre expansion and a 4 acre Outlot. Mr.
Kirmis noted that basically, the issues raised previously remain applicable. NAC considers
Otsego Planning C
this a policy matter to be deter
recommends zoning approval,
conditions outlined in their re]
Larry Koshak reported in his 1
been addressed. He did not re
this can be addressed later. M
Minutes of September 6, 1995, contd. Page 2.
.ned by City Officials. If the Planning Commission
AC recommends Final Plat approval subject to the
rt of August 8, 1995 (attached).
Nious report he stated his concerns and the majority have
ive a site plan showing current septic and drainfield but
Koshak, City Engineer, recommends approval.
William Jones Mixed feelings, concerns were: location, commercial
8756 Parrell Avenue levelopment as primary for this area, important to keep
Iity functioning/suggested to work with church on parking
nabling them to expand on present location and to utilize
ew school facilities for recreational purposes.
Wally Klus, representing
Mary Dare
5100 Eden Avenue
Minneapolis, MN
Chair Swenson closed the
Commission.
Concerns:
The Outlot not losing t
The capacity of the nev
Projection for growth
If growth continues as
If church researched of
Current property, what
additional prop,
Response:
Bob Kirmis stated the zoning N
not the Outlot. The potential f
Jack Holm, Christ Lutheran Cl
no design for seating capacity
to double seating from what th
Church is driven by amount of
Most the this land is in the Flood Plain. Thinks that
ommercial development is several years out and there
> a need for soil correction/ land won't be in demand
ntil Water & Sewer is put in and then will still have to
-move out of Wild & Scenic and Flood Plain.
Hearing and brought discussion back to Planning
( base
building
jected, will expansion go into the Outlot.
typical size property for churches.
of expansion space if available without obtaining
ould only apply to the 6.3 acres they are building on and
r the Outlot is for commercial development.
arch, explained that the site plan is conceptual and there is
t this time. For current property, Church wouldn't be able
y have, not being able to get enough parking. A size of a
)arking. Joint parking is not currently available.
Otsego Planning Commi
Pastor Pagh, Christ Lutheran (
2000. Would like to see a san
be a option for the future. He
sell. The Lord of Life Church
started with 10 or 15 acres an(
Comments*
Mark Wallace stated that the
and looking at the long range
against the Comprehensive P]
not conform. Mr. Wallace w,
showing enough property for
the Church to look for anothe
organization and not as a Chr
not in the City's best interest
Eugene Goenner stated the G
and identity outside of the coi
Goenner also noted that the C
is his opinion they do have so
Mark Wallace motioned to i
Highway Commercial to an
Nichols.
Voting For: Mark Wallace,
Voting Against: Eugene Go
Motion to rezone was denies
Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 3.
hurch, stated projection for membership is 2,000 by Year
tuary built for 750 capacity. He noted that Outlot would
Iso noted, if Water and Sewer comes through, they could
n Ramsey, a 2000 membership was forced to relocate, they
have added more. The focus of ministry has changed.
)sition of the Planning Commission is planning for the City
lith trying to fit what is in the City. This request goes
i. The City may be left with a building structure that does
concerned if there is a contingency plan
)ng term. Mr. Wallace also noted that perhaps it is time for
location. Mr. Wallace stated he had to look at this as any
tian Church. In conclusion, Mr. Wallace stated that this is
allow this request.
nprehensive Plan is intended to give the City recognition
munity. He feels that the Church will give this. Mr.
urch was originally given approval by the County and that
.e rights to expand current facilities.
the request to rezone the 6.4 + acres from B-2,
(Institutional Zoning.) Seconded by Richard
Uchard Nichols, Arleen Nagel, Carl Swenson
nner, Jim Kolles, Ing Roskaft
by a four to three vote.
Discussion: Eugene Goenner ommented that if this was a new development going in, he
would agree with denying req est, but the Church is there and should be able to expand.
Chair Swenson concurred wit the Church being valuable, but look at the potential
Commercial and Industrial in tsego, compare it to Elk River and it appears that Otsego
is very short of potential devel pable land. Chair Swenson stated that in planning for
Otsego, this zoning would not e in best interests of the City.
Elaine Beatty stated this item
6:30 PM.
be on the September 11, 1995 City Council Agenda at
Otsego Planning Commission Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 4.
Opening remarks from Staff
Andy MacArthur outlined the City's role of a Conditional Use Permit. This issue was
previously submitted to the MPCA and a Interim Permit was issued. The City's A- I
Districts list commercial feedlots as conditional uses. The City's requirements are to be in
compliance with the MPCA and comply with setbacks. The parameters the City has to
review this, are narrower than usual because of the MPCA. The MPCA has primary
jurisdiction of feedlots. In Wright County, if its under 300 animal units, its a permitted
use, above 300 its a CUP. The primary condition, is to be in compliance with MPCA.
The MPCA has reviewed and has determined that there are no apparent pollution issues.
The City has reviewed the land related items, and NAC has addressed these. The City
can't amend its ordinances while this applicant is under consideration and apply those
changes for that application. These are the general legal parameters the City is under.
The Planning Commission must be aware that the area has been zoned Agricultural.
Bob Kirmis gave a description of the project and that Jim Lefebvre, on behalf of Lef-Co
Farms Inc., has requested a Conditional Use Permit. Specifically, the applicant wants to
establish a feedlot as described. Mr. Kirmis went through the NAC Report dated August
28, 1995 (attached). NAC recommended that the Planning Commission and possibly the
City Council conduct a site inspection of similar feedlots prior to making a formal
recommendation.
Larry Koshak stated the MPCA is overseeing the engineering issues, and will defer to
their comments and approval. Mr. Koshak addressed his concerns in his Report of August
31, 1995 (attached).
Elaine Beatty stated that the proper postings and publication have been done.
Otsego Planning Commission Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 5.
Greg Lefebvre
Fifth generation operators/Farm owned by Greg, Mark,
Jim and Rita Lefebvre/There is a need to expand operation,
need volume to be efficient/Their families want to stay in
this area/with new facility would be able to milk more cows
per man hour/choose this site for 3 reasons: 1) felt this
site fits the Comprehensive Plan (looked at 4 or 5 sites)
2) Engineer picked this site because of clay and lower
excavation costs 3) Site is more than 200 ft from existing
homes. They need this number of cows to pay for this/
previously talked to City Staff and were told they just
needed a building permit and proceeded to get a MPCA
permit/ no word of commercial in this/ a site engineer was
hired/ received MPCA permit on July 17/ the city contacted
us and told us they would consider them as a commercial
feedlot/City Attorney informed us they are going off the
County requirements/ we agreed to file for a CUP/ we feel
we are complying with the conditions/ animals must be out
of the 1000 ft setback - isn't going on in the City/A-1 Zone
is for maintaining and preserving the farm/ feel this is going
to promote and enhance AG purpose/there is no
place in permit where commercial is mentioned/designed to
be environmentally friendly/the propaganda issues
distributed say nitrate in water - all drink the same water/
have confidence in the MPCA evaluation/believe home
septic systems are more of a threat/a 24 hour operation ,
looking at 2 people, less noise then what is current/manure
application - pump directly from basin to applicator
reducing odor and better than alternative of spreading year
around/ they don't want spread on frozen ground slopes/
feel they using the best/an opportunity to learn from this
process, need to answer the questions, not have reactions.
Karen Oakley from Liesch
12400 15th Ave N Plymouth
Environmental Consultants,
Ms. Oakley gave a slide presentation on the permitting
Retained by Lef-Co Farms
process and requirements outlining the Design and
Permitting/Advantages-Containment avoiding impacts
to surface waters -liner systems protect -enhanced
utilization/Concerns - odor -basin liner performance/
Overview of this type of facility.
Otsego Planning Commission Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 6.
Tom Casey, Attorney
2854 Cambridge Lane
Mound, MN 55364
Retained by citizens opposing this CUP.
Warts to get Law and Facts on record/ Background -
Nodiing in State Statutes or City Ordinance stating City has
to maximize landowners profits - applicant only wants this
for economic reasons- purpose of Zoning Code is for
regulation to protect the safety and general health of public
by r gulating the use of land/must apply most restrictive
stanlards/ protect citizens
health and welfare/referred to Zoning Ordinance 1-4.B.,
4-2.F., Comprehensive Plan, Page 18 (Park Site), Page
26, atural/Environmental #2,#3, Page 34/concern with this
use and conformity with Long Range Planning to the North/
Res' ential neighborhood encronchment protection/curtail
to f ture impact.
Coinvatabilitv of Present and Future Land Uses/
patability of R2 Zone/Corporate farm will be 8 times
er than average dairy farm/Lef-Co wants profits
ways, (selling off lots)
brmity Standards
purposed uses on the area, incorporates
amental issues/Questions on air quality/Odor
m/attracts flies/
The crust - applicant said will reduce odor by 80%n still have
20% Concerns with other feedlots that might come into the
City if farmers would stop collecting manure/ Noise/Quality
ofmanure/
Dou ling sewage in Otsego if permit is approved/
No clean guidelines from MPCA on spreading/what if
Corporation goes out of business and Otsego is left with
clean up costs?strengths of emissions/
Exhibit 3 - Comparison waste strengths according to
oxygen depletion and phosphorus content - MPCA -
Vis al Concerns/buffers needed/
Wa r quality issues - Wright County Comprehensive Local
Wa r Management Plan, Page 70, growing evidence with
grot nd water polluting with nitrate and pesticides /
Lett -,r to PCA regarding high rate soil absorption design of
Ots go Elementary/are there any abandoned wells near site?
HiA water table near site/
Otsego Planning Commission Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 7.
Mr. Casey, cont'd 0
health effects concern; coliform bacteria,
impact
on property values/agreed a drainage plan is needed/
exca
ation permit should be required/ Referred to
Section
27-1.A. (Zoning Ordinance)/6-2.1. Nuisance Law.
Section
27-4.E./
Exhibits
4 and 5. National Wetlands Inventory - ask that
the those sites examined and survey and setbacks protrude.
Applies to any pond or lake.
Should still consider Pollution Control Issues, disagrees
with City Attorney regarding analysis of whether or not City
is lin ted to looking to non -population issues/ MPCA
Permit language - not releasing the permittee from any
liability/Referred to Manure Management Guide for
Live Stock Operators, May, 1995, Pages 10,11,13,14, talks
about referring to local laws in addition to MPCA
Perm tting Process/MPCA admitted they have problems/
can't ignore Enviomental issues on Local Level/Wright
County doesn't administrator the MCPA Permit Program/be
carefil of this, the city has a duty under the CUP process to
look�t this carefully, deny based on compatibly and land
use sues.
Carol Holland
6419 Packard Avenue How many planners have visited neighborhood and
envision this/this piece of land has only been owned by
Lef- o for 15 years/Concerns were impact image, flies,
devaluation of property, smell of feed and
man re/gases/noise/disruption/ not being able to walk
because of waste on roadway/noise at night/windows can't
be open/not being able to entertain/no guarantee that
ground water won't be contaminated/concem with water
quality -of availability.
Lived here for 18 years/ Lefebvre purchase farm with one
resid ntial homes/ lack of consideration and no respect for
neighbors with placement of this site/This is placed closer to
our mes than theirs/if commercial feedlot goes through
will be transferring all the negatives on neighbors/request a
site inspection, and request to visit a commercial feedlot
that as been existence for 6 years and to ask about noise,
odors, etc.all concerns, notice lack of residential homes,
layout of feedlot/look for Long Range Plans of City and not
just their operation.
Otsego Planning Commission Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 8.
Dale Kolles Spoke in support.
11787 NE 95th Street Has farmed around Lefebvre's all his life and they are
goo
farmers/Dale's family has manure pits, one put in two
year
had a plastic liner/Nuisance Law how many people
have
moved out without knowing that you moved into an
AG
ea/residents have told him to shut his tractor off so
their
kids can sleep/ tractor lights bother them late at
nigh
tractor tracks are hard for snowmobiles/ has lived
here
all his life/farming is more controlled these days and
the Lefebvres
are up-to-date farmers.
Dan Lefebvre SnokT
e in support
15464 NE 70th St. Warts
the Planning Commission to take a common sense
approach/Mr.
Casey mentioned a lot of health and safety
conc erns, residents live 250 feet away, he lives 25 feet
awafrom
current facility and doesn't have concerns that
we addressed/moved into his current home 5 years ago
and
aluation has increased 15% in three years/there will be
no increase in noise/ traffic is a non issue/odor is non -issue.
Diane Shonyoposition.
6841 Packard Ave NE Live; directly across from feed lot/built 21 years ago
befo e Lefebvre purchased this land/Barn will have open
w , nothing to contain the odor/ this won't be the typical
family farm/there will be noise, odors, semi -trucks, flies/
increase of traffic/ gone will be the quality of life they have
known for 20 years/ability to keep windows open will be
gone/ gone will be comfort of knowing there is good tap
wau r quality/ who will be responsible to homes owner if
acci ental leak happens/ will there be a test well/ gone will
be s e quiet streets we walk and jog on/will Packard
Ave aue be able to handle this/ gone will present home
valu/don't let this be a precedent for other feedlots/there
re o
amany unknowns.
Lisa Bergposition.
6939 Packard Ave NE Has lived in the City for 2 years and this is a City/when we
moved in, no milking operations were there, wouldn't have
moved here if known a commercial feedlot was coming in/
If we sell our property, we must disclose to the potential
buyer that a Commercial Feedlot is coming in, and this is
not a good selling point/Jim Lefebvre
Otsego Planning Commission Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 9.
Lisa Berg, cont'd wams to change the game plan for his own needs/majority
of residents wanted incorporation/concern with smell
coming in house and clothes/ there will be no peace/ noise
assojciated with operation/ flies/visited a site in Glenwood,
ma a video/ the farmer told her that they didn't anticipate
the problem of flies/smell of feed, where will he store the
feedt rodent problem/who will monitor the feedlot/ Checked
with MCPA and they don't have enough people to monitor
feedots/will they being expanding operation down the
road/Look at other feedlots, there are no homes around
John Holland
6419 Packard Avenue NE Have been friends with the Lefebvres for many years but
is o 'posed to this/Wouldn't think Mrs. Lefebvre would
allow this 250 feet from her home/If this was on the
Lefebvre Property they would get the full benefit from this/
they are giving all the negatives to the neighbors/could
expect life of Corporation of 20 to 30 years/ Corporations
only survive with growth, it must expand and will come
back to City for expansion/here primarily because his
valu tion will go down/Per the County, property value
increase will be slower/had his property professionally
appraised, average increase is 3 to 5% each year, if I lose
1% a year, by the time I retired I will lose about $90,000 to
$100,000/will have to disclose feedlot within 1000 ft of
pro erty/Lefebvres have no Long Range Plan (5 year)/
Visii ed a Feedlot in Foley for a operation of same size,
(MP A recommended) no fence around pit/ milk 350
to37 cows/dry cows are 2 miles away, fly problem with
them,parked down wind, knew was there and I was 1000 ft
awa / fermenting of feed was extremely strong/Encourage
Plan ing Commission to look at operation from the outside,
at th surroundings, talk to the farmer.
Jean Baumgartner Snore in op osition_
15857 70th Street NE Where she works, OSHA set guide lines for a safe
env' onment, in spite of these guidelines people still
hu PCA sets guidelines but have established these
guid lines don't always work and have to look at
revising/Count on economy to keep going up and
count on homes to increase in valuation.
Otsego Planning Commission M�nutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 10.
Diane Sebeck
8116 River Road A 2 year residentf understand neighbors concerns/
Lefe ores are conscientious farmers for the environment/
Lefe vres rent the $ebeck's land/Diane appreciates
their professionalism/Checked with a person who lives
near one of these facilities, and concerned with how
many times pit is emptied/Odor is only notice when
agi ed and understand Lefebvre will only spread
about once a year and applying as they proposed will
reduce odor/5 or 6 pears down the road, the Lefebvres
may want to close the feedlot and move it elsewhere/
Wi the growing pains of City, not thrilled with all the
people moving in/there are environmental concerns, can't
beli e what she picks out of the ditches/ she prefers
cowS for neighbors, they don't drive snowmobiles through
her 3 ard/has faith in the Lefebvres that they
will n this well and abide by the rules/nearby neighbors
will nonitor this feedlot
Merlin Bostrom
Spo�e in opposition -
6749 Packard Ave NE If Planning Commission goes to review one these feedlots
will ey be able to find one that is comparable in the
State of MN/remind the PC that this will be located in a
Cityj haven't found another one located within City limits.
Steve Ackerman Spoke in support"
8217 Packard Avenue NE PC needs to consider that the Lefebvres were here first/
encroaching on them and not the other way around/a lot
of farms in this City/resident of 3 or 4 years/reason he
moved here is because farms are good for community/
if they are continue to be squeezed out we suffer because of
it/ th y are just trying to make a living like the rest of us.
Murray Hawkins e in opposition,
16438 70th St. NE Have you lived next to keeping of leaves, grass clippings
which give off bad smells/site will only be 2 miles from
school/Otsego will have to realize this shouldn't go into a
City.
Otsego Planning Commission Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 11.
Jerome Bauer
SpQie in Support -
6685 ODean Avenue NE Critoria for business expanding, is to look what they
have: done in the past/ Lefebvre is a good farming
operation/Feedlots are needed/Give them a chance
and opportunity to do this because they have a good
track record.
Ann Bentz SpQke in opposition.
6699 Packard Ave NE Lef bvre's field surrounds her property/referred to a
brochure from U of MN, Excellence in Feedlot
Majagement/Odor Control was key topic and other
controversial topics.
Gordon Goodin
220 E Central Pro
erty owner East of Lef-Co Farm/have residents
St. Michael had
heir septic systems tested/increase traffic will
hapI
ien without the Feedlot/Odor won't be any worse
than
there current operation/Lefebvre's already have
3
iead of cattle/building sites always are placed with
corn
on sense/this is new technology/MPCA already
have
approved knowing where wetlands are.
David Longren
15850 56th Street SAWn op osp ition_
Frankfort Township Lives Southeast of proposed site/built one year ago/
wo dn't have built there if feedlot was proposed then/
con ern with operation growing/ask for understanding
of residents views/look at other feedlots.
John Ouellett Sne in op osition_
6132 Packard No doubt in his mind that no one would buy a house
acro;s from a feedlottremember that this is a City/
A 1 ge pile of manure by him didn't crust over.
Dale Basinger
5861 Parnell Avenue Spoke in op osition.
Frankfort Township 2 issues - I. Direction of wind, per City Map, there are
horn s all around this site.
2. Creek that runs around South end of property, concern
being within 1000 feet.
Otsego Planning Commission Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 12.
Gabe Davis
6689 Packard Ave NE The day he called the MPGA, they were out of the
offic investigating a liquid manure spill/ No Engineer
from MPCA did a site review/This is the wrong place
and time.
Rex Osterbauer
7380 ODean Ave NE Will give negative impact to property and commercial
the City wants.
Arthur Reiker SpDk AL
6689 Packard Ave NE Own d property for over 20 years across from site/
had horses and when he got rid of them he also got
rid o the flies, and smell.
Chair Swenson brought back to the Planning for discussion.
Chair Swenson stated that one of the requirements NAC suggested was a site inspection
and agrees with this.
All Planning Commission Members agreed on September 16, 1995 for the site tour.
Staff was directed to arrange the b , site selection and also a site inspection of Lef-Co
Farm.
Action
Ing Roskaft motioned to continue this hearing to September 20, 1995, to allow site
inspections. Seconded by Mark Wallace. All in favor. Motion carried.
Ing Roskaft motioned to set the Hearing for consideration of a Moratorium
Ordinance on October 4, 1995. S onded by Richard Nichols. All in favor. Motion
carried.
Otsego Planning Commission Minutes of September 6, 1995, cont'd. Page 13.
5. Continue Brainstorming for * sion - with Richard Nichols -
Richard Nichols motioned to move the Visioning Session to September 20, 1995.
Seconded by Mark Wallace. All in favor. Motion carried.
Ing Roskaft motioned to set Hearing for consideration of amending the Home
Extended Business portion of th Zoning Ordinance on October 4, 1995. Seconded
by Mark Wallace. All in favor. Motion carried.
None
R. Ad'
Ing Roskaft motioned to adjou. Seconded by Mark Wallace. All in favor. Motion
carried. 7
c
Arleen Nagel, Secretary
Judy Hudson, Recording Secretary