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11-15-95 PCCITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING NOVEMBER 15, 1995 OTSEGO CITY HALL 8 P 1 Chair will call meeting to order_ Chair Swenson called the meeting to order at 8 PM. Roll Call: Carl Swenson, Ing Roskaft, Arleen Nagel, Eugene Goenner, Richard Nichols (Jim Kolles arrived late and did not sit with the commission) Excused absence: Bruce Rask 7 Consider Planning Commission Minutes of November 1 1995, Eugene Goenner noted a correction on Page 5, Item 5, year should be 1996. Eugene Goenner motioned to approve the November 1, 1995, Planning Commission Minutes as amended. Seconded by Arleen Nagel. All in favor. Motion carried. • •- • •-�• Chair Swenson reviewed the process and procedures of a Public Hearing. Elaine Beatty stated publication, notice and postings have been done. Chair Swenson opened the Public Hearing. Staff Report Andy MacArthur explained that based on Council concerns on a recent application for a Commercial Feedlot Conditional use Permit, submitted for consideration by the City, has brought forth concerns regarding the compatibility of commercial feedlots with residential and other uses, concerns about reduction of the property value of adjoining residents due to proximity to such a facility, concerns about the effect of possible changes to the City Comprehensive Plan and controls due to availability of sewer and water and the advisability of allowing such uses in an area which may become primarily residential, and concerns about the effectiveness of existing ordinances in property regulating such a facility. He also noted that the actural title of the proposed Ordinance before the Commission differs from the title published. This was due to the short time needed for publication notice. The Council directed staff to come up with an outline and then appoint a Citizens Committee to review the same and come up with a recommendation. The intention of the Interim Ordinance is to provide a moratorium on Commerical Feedlot establishment in order to allow time for the City to conduct these studies and to implement any needed changes. MN Statute 462.355, Subd. 4 allows the City to pass this. Any complete applications received prior to the effective date of the Moratorium, will be accepted. However, such an application must be a full application, meaning that the MPCA material should be submitted, plus a full site plan and drainage plan. Planning Commission Meeting of November 15, 1995, cont'd. Page 2. Public Comments Carol Holland Supports the Moratorium 6419 Packard Avenue Mrs. Holland read her reasons from the attached letter dated 11-5-95 to the Planning Commission (Exhibit A) - Letter of 11-15-95 (A) - Ch. 220 Laws of MN page 1574 (A-1) - Tri -County Appraisal Letter (A-2) - Coldwell Banker's Letters (A-3, A-4) - Letter from Julie Jansen (A-5) - Report dated 5-16-95 on the Effect of Environmental Impacts from Swine operations on Surrounding Residential Property Values. (A-6) Gabe Davis Spoke in support of Moratorium 6689 Packard Ave Stated MPCA are changing their rules and can't run the City on old rules/ need clear guidelines/need to update rules for consistency. Submitted: Exhibit B - Invalidation of Permit Exhibit C - Chapter 130.02, General Provisions and Definitions Exhibit D - Questions that need to be answered regarding commercial feedlot within the City of Otsego Ann Bentz Spoke in support of Moratorium 6699 Packard Avenue City needs to go over feedlot rules/Secretary of Ag for MN is also doing this. Submitted Exhibit E - MPCA information (E -1,E -2,E -3,E-4) - Letter from Edina Realty (E-5) - Schedule of Seminars (E-6) - Newspaper Articles (E-7, E-8) Lavone Berg Spoke in support of moratorium 6939 Packard Avenue Submitted: - Exhibit F - Infor. from Renville County - Exhibit G - Blue Earth County information - Exhibit G-1 - Infor. from Martin County Planning Commission Meeting of November 15, 1995, cont'd. Page 3. Mark Lefebvre Spoke in opposition 15434 70th St Stated moratorium will just prolong decisions/community will just drag their feet/with no moratorium, the issue would push along the process and get the necessary changes into the ordinance/requested that several residents on Packard Avenue should not be placed on the Citizens Comm. John Holland Spoke in support of moratorium 6419 Packard The Feedlot Issue concerns extend farther out than just Packard Ave with support from other residents and farmers/This is a City of Otsego issue/MPCA is only concerned with ground water issues all other issues are addressed by local government. Submitted Exhibit H. - Letter Paul Beming Spoke in opposition of moratorium His family has been considering doing an expansion (feedlot expansion)/started process with MPCA, when this came up, they have decided to wait, it is a four month process with MPCA/Total process time of 6 months/MPCA stated there are no other pending application from Otsego/This is a Multi million dollar operation/4 owners of farm and we need to look to the future and make plans/admits that Ord. needs changes/Farmers have a right to farm in Otsego/information received tonight is basically on hog operations and not dairy/can't prohibit all feedlots. Greg Lefebvre Spoke in opposition of moratorium 15033 70th St Fastest way to get things changed is without a moratorium/encourage PC to vote against moratorium and convince the City Council that a moratorium is not needed/Ag is the largest industry in the City/changes will occur faster without the Moratorium. Debbie Yauk Spoke in support of moratorium 9127 Parkington Circle Stated empathy for farmers but need to keep City clean and healthy/Chair Swenson closed the Public Hearing. Planning Commission Meeting of November 15, 1995, cont'd. Page 4. Richard Nichols asked if interim resolution is based on current definition and is not making an attempt to change anything that is there now. Mr. MacArthur said that is correct. Eugene Goenner asked what is the current definition of a Feedlot. Bob Kirmis read the definition and stated the problem with the definition is it refers to the generation of substantial amounts of manure with the term substantial being difficult to define. Mr. Goenner was concerned with a farmer coming in for a new building permit to expand and the City doesn't have a good definition even though the increase in herd might be very small. He was also concerned with using MPCA guidelines and limit any size expansion. Mr. Goenner feels the moratorium would penalize someone for a small reason. Mr. MacArthur noted the lower limits are not defined and this is creating some of the problems. Even with the moratorium we need to take the common sense approach in determining where the lines are drawn. Ing Roskaft noted there is manure accumulation with any size of operation. He feels moratorium is taking a crack at the farmers right down the middle. Mr. Roskaft pointed out that years ago, the Town Board, mostly farmers, gathered money over the years, money received from taxes, mostly from farmers. The result of their good planning was money for the new City Hall. Mr. Roskaft stated he doesn't believe the moratorium will do any good. He was concerned with moratorium stopping the hobby size farms and also that farmers have to make a living. Richard Nichols stated this is a major problem in the City right now and we owe it both to the rural and urban residents to settle this quickly. One way is to speed through this, but a concern with speed is the need to be careful. The problem Mr. Nichols sees is the problem that started this, the definition as it exists, which just doesn't work. Common sense does have merit, but just doesn't cut it. He doesn't think the moratorium is going to solve the problem but would be a delay tactic. Mr. Nichols believes that farmers would not want to start an application with the current definition because of expenses involved and the precedent set and feels there should be a time limit on this. Mr. Nichols is not in favor of the moratorium stating it would create more problems that solved. Vern Heidner, Council Representative, noted the Citizens Committee was directed to report back to the City Council by February. Arleen Nagel stated she had the same concerns as Mr. Nichols and doesn't support the moratorium. Planning Commission Meeting of November 15, 1995, cont'd. Page 5. Carl Swenson said a valid point has been raised regarding the smaller additions to existing operations, like an addition of 30 units. He also asked how an addition of 200 animal units would be handled. Mr. MacArthur replied the problem is where you are talking the larger amounts and felt that an increase of 200 animal units would call for a CUP. He also stated the Planning Commission could come up with a recommendation of what the downward limit should be. Chair Swenson asked about using the County's definition, would that provide the lower limit. Mr. MacArthur didn't know if that would be acceptable, depending on how close it would be to residential. The County's states a CUP is required for 300 animal units. There was discussion on animal units and if this would be with the manure pit or without. The concern according to Mr. MacArthur is with the manure pit. There was also discussion on the common sense approach. Mr. Goenner stated if we wait for agencies to change the rules, we will wait forever because rules are always changing. The information given tonight was for hog operations. Also regarding the questions to be asked, can't think of a lot of other questions that weren't asked at the Lefebvre Hearing. It takes four months to go through the MPCA, that gives the City at least three months to get things finalized. Mr. Goenner asked if the moratorium can be extended. Mr. MacArthur replied it can be extended one additional period of 18 months. Mr. Goenner said he can not support this moratorium. Mr. Heidner said the only reason the moratorium would go that long, is if the Planning Commission can't get it done. Mr. MacArthur indicated that without a moratorium another application could come in front of the City with substantially different facts than Lef-Co and it would have to be evaluated under existing ordinances. There was discussion on recommending a limited amount of units that would be allowed with the moratorium and/or without a manure pit. Paul Berning reminded the commission that no building can be done in the winter. Chair Swenson stated he was uncomfortable coming up with a number that they are not qualified to do. Eugene Goenner motioned to recommend denial of the proposed Interim Ordinance Establishing a Moratorium on Commercial Feedlots within the City of Otsego. Seconded by Ing Roskaft. Voting for: Eugene Goenner, Arleen Nagel, Richard Nichols, Ing Roskaft Voting against: Carl Swenson Motion carried four to one. Planning Commission Meeting of November 15, 1995, cont'd. Page 6. Chair opened the Public Hearing and explained the process. Elaine Beatty stated the proper noticing, posting and publications have been done. Bob Kirmis went over the NAC Report of November 9, 1995 (attached). Mr. Kirmis expressed concern with noise for the residents located to the North. Also is concerned with set back from Park Avenue and recommended relocation of site activities to comply with the applicable 35 foot setback requirement. His office recommends approval subject to the 15 conditions listed in the report. Margaret Thibodeau, Owner Mrs. Thibodeau said the name has been changed to Fun City. Mrs. Thibodeau went over their expansion plans (attached). She noted that bumper cars are not a race car. The kiddie cars are electric and are for ages eight and under and noted the cars are quieter than a typewrite. In response to NAC's report. Recommendation #1 Lots 3 and 4 have been combined and a copy of Certificate of Survey has been given to the City. This was done in February of 1994. Recommendation #2 Setbacks: Primary disagreement, the request is with spirit of the Ordinance, 35 feet is the setback for buildings. The parking lot is closer to the road, it would be hard to believe the kiddie cars and bumper cars making more noise than vehicles. Recommendation #3 Mrs. Thibodeau believes they are well below the City's requirement. They are well below the noise ordinance for MPCA. Recommendation #4 Once they know the final layout, Landscaping Plan will be submitted. Planning Commission Meeting of November 15, 1995, cont'd. Page 7. Recommendation #5 The intent is to install a culvert and will use less hard surface than what is on the original plan. Regarding the letter from Larry Koshak that easement must be kept open, they would just extend the culvert. Recommendation #6 By dropping the plans for the restaurant, septic will not be a issue. Recommendation #7 They have no problem with this. Recommendation #8 They are in disagreement with this. Nothing in the new building would require loading and unloading. Recommendation #9 A bicycle rack is already located on Minn -E -Golf. Recommendation #10 Hours will be the same from 10 AM to 10 PM. Recommendation #11 They are in agreement with this. Recommendation #12 They will provide what is on the plan. If the proposal goes through, a hooded light in the area between the bumper and kiddie cars and between Minn -E -Golf and the bumper cars will be put in. Recommendation #13 They are willing to do this with reasonable amounts. Recommendation #14 They are in agreement with this. Parking Concern This was an issue until they dropped the restaurant. They noted they comply with this in protest. The current lot hasn't been used in two years. Mrs. Thibodeau asked for the Planning Commission's approval. They believe they are good neighbors and are in compliance with the spirit of the Ordinances. Planning Commission Meeting of November 15, 1995, cont'd. Page 8. Elaine Beatty noted for the record, that Warren Phillips contacted her, and he agreed with what the Thibodeaus are planning and stated they run a good operation. Greg Lefebvre Spoke in support He feels the Thibodeaus have done a good job/stated government is over governing on people bringing businesses to the community. Debbie Yauk Stated Thibodeaus have been super 9127 Parkington Circle neighbors but is concerned with the noise level/If they decide to change the hours of operation, will they be notified/If there are noise problems, what is the procedure to follow and would they have any recourse. Mr. Kirmis responded that Ms. Yauk's concern of any change of hours could be made a condition of the permit. Ms. Yauk asked if they would be notified if noise restrictions are reviewed. Chair Swenson replied if changes are substantial, this would have to come through the Planning Commission. Mrs. Thibodeau explained that when they started this business, they talked to the Brown's and offered to do any type of landscaping for them. They had replied they didn't need to. They don't plan on changing the hours. They hire kids and they can't work beyond 10 PM. Mike Brown Spoke in support 9124 Parkington Mr. Brown stated Minn -E -Golf has been located there since 1988 and they haven't had any problems with the kids. The kids are well behaved and he sees this as a positive activity for the kids. Chair Swenson closed the Public Hearing. Richard Nichols questioned the parking numbers used in the NAC Report. Based on the historical demand, it changed from 1.5 to 1, and therefore should show 54 for the record. Also noted that if the City requires a loading berth, he assumes that the excess parking could be converted into a loading berth. Planning Commission Meeting of November 15, 1995, cont'd. Page 9. Mr. Nichols stated a concern regarding the subdivision, the applicant shouldn't have to pay for this. Another concern is the setback requirement in regarding to the essential intent of setback in restricting principal use activity. In the Zoning Ordinance Book the definition given is anything built. Mr. Nichols doesn't see a flat asphalt track with temporary plastic boards as a structure. He views this being similar to a parking lot. Mr. Nichols supports the proposal, waive any additional fees and not enforce the 35 foot setback. Chair Swenson wanted clarification if the minor subdivision was done and was recorded. Mr. Kirmis' previous conclusion was that the subdivision was never completed, which was a condition of the original approval. Elaine Beatty said if this proposal is approved, and the recording is done, it will state that lots are to stay together and will be accomplished at no extra cost. Chair Swenson questioned if the lighting for the batting cages would be adjusted. Margaret Thibodeau explained that this lighting is different and she had questioned a resident on CSAH 39 and this resident said the lighting doesn't bother him. Chair Swenson replied if the lighting is a direct violation of the ordinance, then the lights should be adjusted. Richard Nichols questioned the grading and drainage and if putting the culvert in would work. Mr. Kirmis replied that this is an Engineering question but Larry Koshak was concerned with the Kiddie Car Track infringing upon the easement. Chair Swenson stated this could be a condition, if proposal is approved. Eugene Goenner asked about the utility easement and if this goes through the kiddie car track, would the City have the authority to remove it. Mr. Kirmis said the easement for utility and drainage is 25 feet. Margaret Thibodeau said they currently have a culvert in from the sidewalk under the batting cages for water flow and utility and they just want to extend it from the sidewalk to the North. Richard Nichols motioned to approve the request for an Amendment to the PUD/CUP to allow expansion of Minn -E -Golf and Hobby subject to the conditions listed in the NAC Report of November 9, 1995, but eliminating Condition #2 and subject to the City's Engineer's comments on the drainage and utility easement setback. Seconded by Ing Roskaft. All in favor. Motion carried. Elaine Beatty stated this item will be on the November 27, 1995 City Council Agenda at 6:30 PM. Planning Commission Meeting of November 15, 1995, cont'd. Page 10. Bob Kirmis informed the Planning Commission the Sign Amendment will be on the next Planning Commission Agenda and passed out a handout. Ing Roskaft motioned to adjourn. Seconded by Richard Nichols. All in favor. Motion carried. Adjourned at 9:55 PM. /tXJZ� - 'tt _ Arleen Nagel, Secretary Recorded by: Judy Hudson jeh