06-02-08 PCIT EM 2.9
OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
OTSEGO CITY HALL
JUNE 21 2008
7 PM
1. Chair Black will call the meeting to order.
Chair Black called the meeting to order at 7:00 PM.
Roll Call: Chair Pam Black, Planning Commission Members: David
Thompson, Doug Hackman, John Thelen, Tammie Fallon, and Richard Nichols.
Absent: Commissioner Jim Kolles.
Staff: Mike Robertson, City Administrator; Judy Hudson, City Clerk/Zoning
Administrator; and Dan Licht, City Planner.
Council: Mayor Larry Fournier, CM Vern Heidner and CM Mark Thorsted.
2. Consider the following minutes.
2.1. May 5, 2008 Planning Commission Meeting.
Commissioner Thelen motioned to approve as written. Seconded by
Commissioner Hackman. All in favor. Motion carried.
3. Planning Items:
PUBLIC HEARING ITEMS:
3.1. Crimson Ponds North:
A. Zoning Map amendment rezoning to R -4A District.
B. Preliminary Plat for 65 single family lots.
City Planner Dan Licht presented the Planner's Report.
David Hagen, Planner representing Backes Companies. Said they started with
around 100 lots and are down to 65 lots. The exception parcel (southeast of
proposed plat) they have laid out a proposed plat. They agree with the staff
conditions.
Judy Hudson attested that all the proper noticing, publishing and posting was
done.
Chair Black opened the Public Hearing at 7:29 PM.
Russ Langer, 7830 Padgett Avenue, concerned with the timing of this
development with approving 65 lots. He feels there are vacant homes in Otsego
and we don't need any more.
Sue Kroll, 14814 78th Street, she is concerned with losing wetlands, open space
and thought these would be one acre lots in this area. Ms. Kroll quoted what
concerns the Planning Commission had last time. Ms. Kroll also asked about the
lift station — its function and location. Dan Licht explained. She asked why the
change from one acre lots.
Dan Licht said that they can't do unsewered lots on this type of soil and these
lots would be consistent with the Zoning Ordinance.
Planning Commission Meeting June 2, 2008. Page 2.
Del Hinton, 8045 Ogren Avenue, She is concerned that we don't need an
additional 65 houses.
Curtis Rieck, 14680 78th Street, He did talk to developer about bringing sewer
and water to his property, but if he sells they know they must complete the road
and install sewer and water.
Commissioner Thompson asked Dave Hagen on the trail heading north out of
development how will that be marked? Mr. Hagen said that would be a outlot
deeded to the City. Dan Licht said the City can sign it identifying its future use.
Commissioner Thelen likes the deepness of the lots which helps to buffer them
from neighboring housing. He asked if there could be berming along the back of
the lot lines. Dan Licht said there would be in some areas but not all because
parts of the proposed development are higher than their neighbors.
Commisisoner Nichols said it seems like the reason for R4 zoning was because of
public input from the first hearing that no one was comfortable with smaller lots.
They are trying to accommodate with the R4 zoning to provide a transition and
that has taken away one third of the houses.
Commissioner Thelen said on the north side and southeast he suggested
removing a couple more lots and adding them to interior. Dan Licht said there
really isn't any room.
Commissioner Fallon was concerned with Phase 3 because that creates a very
long cul-de-sac. She suggested not allowing Phase 3 until the exception piece
was sold for development.
Commissioner Fallon, referred to PeopleService's sheet on the City's cost of
supporting the temporary left station. Mr. Licht said only homeowners on the
sewer system pay for those operational costs. CM Heidner said this will be a
issue when it gets to City Council. Lift stations are expensive to maintain and
when the exception parcel develops it will be expensive to change to a gravity
system but it is a cheaper system to maintain. Mr. Licht said the applicant was
told the City would prefer a gravity system. Commissioner Thompson supports
an escrow to pay the maintenance costs of the lift station.
Commissioner Hackman asked about price of homes.
Mr. Hagen said the homes would run between $200,000 and $500,000. Builders
won't build until they know they can sell them. Construction could start as early
as next year but it's more likely it would be a few years. Commissioner Fallon
asked if they are looking at selling lots individually. Mr. Hagen said typically they
Planning Commission Meeting June 2, 2008. Page 3.
work with a certain number of builders who each have 5 or 6 different housing
plans.
Russ Langer, Doesn't think it would be wise or prudent to approve this, not a
good time.
Sue Kroll, regarding the exception property, if a gravity system is installed would
that go through my land.
Dan Licht said it would go through existing drainage and utility easements. Mr.
Robertson said that if there is no easement the developer would need to buy it.
Jane LeVassuer, 7828 Ogren Avenue, when these developments go in it affects
the neighborhood. Doesn't like how the developer does things.
Delphina Hinton, 8045 Ogren Avenue, will the field behind her be graded
upward? She is concerned with grading sloping down into her backyard. Mr.
Licht showed how a Swale would go in and all drainage would be handled within
the plat. She is concerned with property lines. Mr. Licht said a survey must be
done by developer and you can see that the fence is on the developer's property
and they can remove the fences (two of them). She asked to make the
developer do one acre lots instead.
Curtis Rieck, His opinion is that escrow money should be set aside for future
gravity system as he shouldn't be responsible for that nor should a future buyer.
Supports a cap at phase 2 of the development and wait until his property
develops. Mr. Licht said the city's policy is not to force anyone to hook up to City
Sewer. Mr. Rieck is very concerned with future hook up costs to him.
Hearing no more public comments, Chair Black closed the Public Hearing at 8:49
PM.
Commissioner Thompson asked what the development plan is for this. Mr. Hagen
thought it would be built in three consecutive years.
Mr. Hagen said they need to make the sewer connection in Crimson Ponds West
before doing phases in Crimson Ponds North.
Commissioner Fallon suggested adding stopping phase 3 and also adding
condition that final plat of phase 3 shall require connection of 81St and Ogren
Avenue. Commissioner Nichols said that he doesn't see the point of holding
phase 3 up because we need a force main. He would rather see it go with
gravity now and don't see the need to freeze phase 3.
Commissioner Fallon suggested another reason to stop Phase 3 was to connect
81St to Ogren Avenue. Mr. Licht said the street would be 1800 feet long before
the exception piece develops and we limit cul-de-sac to 500 feet. During the
interim there would be the emergency path to use.
Commissioner Fallon said she would support holding off this development until a
gravity main can be installed.
Planning Commission Meeting June 2, 2008. Page 4.
Commissioner Nichols motioned to approve the rezoning the subject
site to R -4A District based on a finding that the action would be
consistent with the comprehensive plan compatible with existing
development neighborhoods surrounding the subject site. Seconded
by Commissioner Thelen. After further discussion Commissioner Nichols
withdrew the motion. The second agreed.
Commissioner Nichols motioned to deny the application as it is
inconsistent with the policies of the Comphrensive Plan and
requirements of the Zoning Ordinance and Subdivision Ordinance.
Seconded by Commissioner Fallon. All in favor. Motion carried.
Reasons for denial is that it is inconsistent with city's policy of maintenance of
utilities, noncompliance with cul-de-sac requirements, impact to wetland not
consistent, and lack of ability to connect 81St and Ogren Avenue.
3.2. Richard Kincanon:
A. CUP to allow a lot less than 20 acres within the A-2 District.
Dan Licht presented the Planner's Report.
Richard Kincanon, applicant, and Dennis Grill, son-in-law and future homeowner
of the Club house, showed a sketch of proposed changes turn the Club House
into a home.
Judy Hudson attested that all the proper noticing, publishing and posting was
completed. Mrs. Hudson shared she received several calls from neighbors
curious in what was being proposed and all felt that Richard Kincanon would do
a good job.
Chair Black opened the Public Hearing at 7:09 PM.
No public comments.
Hearing no public comments, Chair Black closed the Public Hearing at 7:11 PM.
Commissioner Thompson motioned to recommend to approve a CUP
allowing subdivision of a lot less than 20 acres in size within the A-2
District, subject to the seven conditions listed in the Planner's Report.
Seconded by Commissioner Nichols. All in favor. Motion carried.
4. Any other Planning Commission Business.
4.1. Update on City Council actions by Councilmember Heidner.
CM Heidner updated everyone on recent Council actions.
4.2. Update on future Planning Commission Agenda Items by
Judy Hudson.
CM Heidner also explained about the Star Tribune's article on vacant homes and
how it left out information. He noted the City has always made developers pay
for infrastructure ahead of time so if homes don't sell the City is not losing
money.
Planning Commission Meeting June 2, 2008. Page 5.
5. Adjournment by 10 PM.
Commissioner Hackman motioned to adjourn. Seconded by
Commissioner Thelen. All in favor. Motion carried. Adjourned at 9:21
PM.
Pam Black, Chair
Attest:
Judy Hudson, City Clerk/Zoning Admin.
Recorded by: Tami Loff, Deputy Clerk