02-07-96 PCCITY OF OTSEGO
WRIGHT COUNTY, MINNESOTA
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
8 P
COUNCIL CHAMBERS
OTSEGO CITY HALL
FEBRUARY 7, 1996
1. Chair will call meeting order.
Chair Carl Swenson called the February 7, 1996 Planning Commission Meeting to order
at 8:03 PM.
Roll Call: Carl Swenson, Ing Roskaft, Arleen Nagel, Bruce Rask, Richard Nichols,
Eugene Goenner, Jim Kolles and Larry Fournier, Council Representative.
Staff: Bob Kirmis, Assistant Planner; Larry Koshak, City Engineer; Elaine Beatty, City
Clerk/Zoning Administrator; Judy Hudson, Deputy Clerk.
2_ Consideration of the Planning Commission Minutes of Janu= 17_, 1996,
Bruce Rask motioned to approved the January 17, 1996 Planning Commission
Minutes. Seconded by Richard Nichols. All in favor. Motion carried.
3. Election of Officers.
Chair Swenson requested Item 3 be placed under Item 9. All Planning Commission
Members agreed.
Chair Swenson explained the process of the Public Hearing.
Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Administrator, stated all postings, publications and
mailings were completed.
Bob Kirmis introduced the project and went over his report dated, January 10, 1996,
which is attached. The applicant is asking for two components, which are:
1. Expand the City's immediate urban service area boundary to include the subject
property.
2. Amend the Land Use Plan (map and Text) to accommodate low/medium
density residential use upon the subject property (plan currently suggests
agricultural use upon subject site).
The rezoning of this property has not been formally requested at this time. The
development plan tentatively calls for a +190 acre golf course flanked by +200 low and/or
medium density residential dwelling units. A package sewage treatment system is being
considered to service this property.
Planning Commission Meeting of February 7, cont'd. Page 2.
Recommendation
It is NAC's position that determinations of land use appropriateness are policy issues to be
determined by City Officials.
As noted in the report, Comprehensive Plan Policies exist which both encourage and
discourage the proposed use upon the subject property. Should the city find the proposed
low/medium density residential development and golf course are a generally acceptable
use at the proposed location, NAC would recommend the City approve the requested
Comprehensive Plan Amendments subject to the following:
1. Final project approval of a development similar to the one proposed, including,
but not limited to property rezoning and subdivision.
2. A determination is made by the city that the proposed use will have no adverse
environmental impacts (preparation of an Environmental Impact statement is not
required).
3. Comments from other City Staff.
The Developer is looking for direction from the City for this particular use in this
particular area. No details are available at this time.
Chair Swenson opened the Hearing to the Public.
John Simola Difficult to look at use without
92nd Street any details. Concern with treatment
plant and costs. Need more
information.
Scott Kohler Wants more details to see what is
10348 99th Street going on and what is going to
happen and how it is going to
happen.
Peggy Robins Spoke against project.
9964 Kadler Avenue How many houses will be allowed
and what is medium to small
housing. Concern was with this
project going right up to her
property line. She moved out here
to live in the County.
Planning Commission of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 3.
Terry Kohler
10348 99th Street NE
Carla Olson
Island View Estates
Deb Swift
8997 Kadler
Dale Hedlund
92nd Street
Chair Swenson closed the Public Hearing.
Spoke against the project.
Nothing like this in Otsego. Moved
to Otsego for the space. Against
putting commercial with this.
Wants more details. Concern
developer will draw in Island View
with sewer. Will be too many houses
not in favor of rezoning and reducing
size of lots.
Spoke against the project
Moved from Minnetonka
to Otsego for space, quality of life,
likes the farm community and doesn't
like small lots.
Spoke against the project
The golf course is going in
across from her. If this
property can be rezoned, then she
would like to rezone her property.
Concern was if Kadler Ave.
is upgraded, will he be assessed.
Richard Nichols asked for more information about package treatment systems and what
does that mean and where it would be located.
Neil Perlich said he understands the concerns but, at this time, he is not in any position to
give a lot of information. They are working with the MPCA and they will dictate where
the drainage goes. The plan presented here will probably be redone several times. The
golf course designer designed Fox Hollow and there are several things that have to be
studied. Mr. Perlich said they are looking at about 200 home sites but are not at the stage
to give details. He is here now to get a feel if this project can be achieved and if agreed to
there will be restrictions and ramifications and a long way to go with many more meetings
for residents to see the details. They don't want to start designing until they hear from the
MPGA.
There are issues with the treatment plant. If the City doesn't have funds to participate,
then it would have to be a private owned financing project, built and maintained by a
private group.
Richard Nichols commented if the design of the golf course is the same as Fox Hollow, it
Planning Commission Meeting of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 4.
appears that the general theme is different from Fox Hollow. This one is appears to have
smaller lots with a waste treatment plant. He asked if they have looked at using on site
septic with larger lots.
Mr. Perlich didn't think that would fly with the City, having 200 homes. Also regarding
the 2.5 unit per acres at 12,000 square foot lots is the first time he heard this. He said to
keep in mind that lots with sewer would sell for around $45,000 which will mean bigger
homes.
Richard Nichols asked if it necessary to take this 335 acres and change the designation to
be in the Immediate Urban Service Area Boundary Line to go forward with the project.
Chair Swenson said it is necessary in order to go forward with the project that it can't go
into an AG area.
Ing Roskaft asked a question in regards to this rezoning not being final unless the plan
becomes final and developed according to recommendation by the staff.
Chair Swenson said the line must be moved first and then the rezoning is done.
Bob Kirmis noted that no formal rezoning application is before the City. A change to the
Immediate Service Area, sets the ground work for potential rezoning.
Chair Swenson expressed concern with moving the line involving residential and
commercial. He questioned recommending using a PUD Zoning rather than moving the
line. He has concern was with setting a precedent. A PUD can address the special issues
of both commercial and residential.
Eugene Goenner expressed the same concern with setting a major precedent. He can't
support a PUD either and feels it is just another way of skipping around the issue.
Ing Roskaft asked the developer if the City would take over the waste water treatment
plant if developer defaults. Mr. Perlich said the City will need to set the guidelines.
Larry Koshak said in the MPCA's position the City is always responsible for waste water
treatment facilities.
Larry Fournier asked Bob Kirmis if it would be more appropriate for a PUD or moving
the line. Bob Kirmis responded that it is a basis for a way of proceeding as a
Comprehensive Plan Amendment and moving Immediate Urban Service Line. When we
change land use we look toward the Comprehensive Plan. It establishes a directive within
the Comprehensive Plan that this use is appropriate. PUD is not intended as a means to
get around certain requirements. The bottom line is do you want this use in this particular
site. If you do, put it in the plan and we will proceed.
Richard Nichols felt there was a problem arriving at a decision because of the small
amount of details. The Planning Commission should decide if they are in favor or not in
favor of this project. He feels to have something like what is around Fox Hollow would
be a plus for Otsego. This would not be located in the middle of farming, there are a lot
of wetlands
Planning Commission Meeting of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 5.
and the northern boundary is residential. His only concern was with lack of information
with lot sizes and the sewer plant.
Chair Swenson asked if the line is extended, then could this go to R3.
Bob Kirmis said that according to the ordinance, it establishes the 2.5 unit if sewer is
available and the 12,000 square foot lot. R4 could al. -o be potential use in this case.
Bruce Rask stated he has heard all these concerns. His question in looking at the planning
that the owner has the right to sell, he can't preserve the farm land. With all the homes
if we have problems with the septic the City would have something in that area to pick up
those homes.
Neil Perlich that they may incorporate into the plan for sewer, to accommodate
Riverwood and Island View Estate if they get financial assistance. Right now it is not
their intention to be building a massive plant.
Bruce Rask stated he would be against the medium density zoning as it would not be in
character with Island View Estates.
Eugene Goenner stated this would be spot zoning and not an orderly plan. Island View
Estates is one acre lots. This proposal would be jutting out of no where and the City
would be setting a precedent.
Jim Kolles remarked that he felt that if landowners have the opportunity to sell, the City
doesn't have the right to put that restriction on them. He agreed with not having the
low/medium density zoning and keep this on the upper end for housing. Mr. Kolles also
stated he is in favor of the golf course which is a good project to come into the
community.
Ing Roskaft agreed that the golf course is no problem. The problem he sees is the with the
small lots, which are needed to support the sewer plant.
Richard Nichols tried to sum this discussion up saying the developer has heard the
Planning Commission Comments and can decide what is appropriate to handle this project
with a treatment plant or septic and come through staff for process with a Public Hearing.
Elaine Beatty pointed out that Riverwood will need a treatment plant. Island View
Estates
will have the opportunity in the future to be able to hook up. Right now most of their
systems are new and wouldn't be required to hook up unless there is a need. There could
be some environmental problems in the future and this was a major reason staff advised
the developer to have a treatment plant and it ties all this in together.
Larry Koshak said the perception of what has been discussed is if they would provide a
treatment facility and it would be expandable if other properties decide to be hooked up,
the City could get involved. The City would have an agreement with the developer.
There were questions and discussion regarding easements with the City Engineer.
Planning Commission Meeting of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 6.
Ing Roskaft motioned to approve with review of the Planning Commission
discussion to expand the Immediate Urban Service Area Boundary Line to include
the subject property, subject to the conditions outlined in the NAC Report dated 1-
10-96. Seconded by Richard Nichols.
Voting For: Jim Kolles, Arleen Nagel, Richard Nichols, Carl Swenson, Bruce Rask,
Ing Roskaft.
Voting Against: Eugene Goenner
Motion carried six (6) to one (1).
Richard Nichols pointed out that the rezoning is not being done but changing the Land
Use Plan from Agricultural to Residential Use.
Bruce Rask said the developer has the right, through the Comprehensive Plan, to go down
to 12,000 square foot lots.
Bob Kirmis pointed out that low density basically is saying single family homes and the
issues of lots size would be addressed at the time of rezoning.
Richard Nichols motioned to amend the Land Use Plan to accommodate low density
residential use upon the subject property. Ing Roskaft seconded.
Voting For: Jim Kolles, Arleen Nagel, Richard Nichols, Carl Swenson, Bruce Rask,
Ing Roskaft.
Voting Against: Eugene Goenner
Motion carried six (6) to one (1).
(Discussion occurred between the motion being made and the actual vote)
Discussion: Eugene Goenner felt this would be a mistake on the part of the City. This
would be setting a precedent. He felt that just because there is a potential problem with
Riverwood and Island View Estates it is not enough to allow this. Mr. Goenner stated he
didn't have a problem with the golf course but not the residential development.
Bruce Rask said the City must do planning for potential environmental problems. The
City has tried to preserve farmland and look what happened, Otsego is being annexed
because of it. Some of this land is in the four per forty area, therefore still get many new
homes.
Richard Nichols doesn't view this as setting a precedent. The project is not being put
there to solve Riverwood's problems. There is already housing to the North and to the
East in this area. He would like to see large lots. Landowners have the right to use his
property. This project gives the City a lot of green space. If the City can work with the
developer, he feels the project will be done right.
Elaine Beatty stated this will be on the February 12, 1996 City Council Agenda at 6:30
PM.
Planning Commission Meeting of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 7.
Chair Swenson opened the Public Hearing.
Elaine Beatty stated the proper publishing, noticing and mailing was completed.
Bob Kirmis went over his Report dated January 15, 1996. The applicant has requested a
conditional use permit to allow a "one per forty" transfer of development rights. The
transfer is for development rights available from a 40 acre tract of land to a 5 acre tract to
be created. In addition to the requested density transfer, approval of a conditional use
permit is also necessary to allow the creation of a lot greater than 2.5 acres in size in an A-
1 Zoning District.
NAC recommends approval of the Conditional Use Permit subject to the conditions
outlined in the Report dated January 15, 1996.
The applicant, Floyd Roden, asked for support in approval. He said if you look at the
south end of this property it is a low area and it is not being farmed.
Chair Swenson closed the Public Hearing.
There were none.
Planning Commission Meeting of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 8.
Ing Roskaft motioned to approved the Conditional Use Permit to allow a one per
forty density transfer within an A-1 Zoning District and to allow the creation of a
residential lot size larger than 2.5 acres in an A-1 Zoning District. Seconded by
Arleen Nagel.
All in favor. Motion carried.
Elaine Beatty stated this Item will be on the February 26, 1996 City Council Agenda at
6:30 PM.
Chair Swenson opened the Hearing.
Elaine Beatty stated the proper noticing, publishing and mailing was completed.
Elaine Beatty went over her Report of February 1, 1996. The applicant has already been
though the process for two variances and a rezoning approval, which were approved at
the March 13, 1995 City Council Meeting. The final step at this Hearing is for approval
the Preliminary and Final Plat of Island View Estates Second Addition.
Staff Recommendation is to approve the Island View Estates Second Addition Preliminary
and Final Plat subject to two conditions.
1. Developer enters into a Developers Agreement with the City.
2. Newly created lots remain in tact with the lot owners (not to be sold
separately).
Public Comments-
John
.o mento.
John Jelinksi, 9942 Kahler Avenue, asked for a better explanation and history of this
request.
Bob Kirmis went over the history, explaining the geography of this long narrow strip of
land. Several of the lot owners adjoining this piece of land are willing to buy a section of
it to add on to their existing lots (extending the depth of their lots).
Steve Olson He is buying the land located behind him
10275 99th St NE and the land behind Lot 1. If in the future
Owner of L2, B4 a new owner of Lot 1 wanted to buy that
Island View Estates piece of property, could he sell it to him.
Chair Swenson said he could with a lot line adjustment.
Planning Commission Meeting of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 9.
Paul Berning Questioned why the line didn't go all the
11756 80th St NE way back. He wants it left as is. They have
taken care of this piece of land and could lay
a quick claim deed on it. He felt this
purchase was done behind his back and no
one came to discuss this with him.
Chair Swenson explained this was arranged between the owners and the City didn't enter
into it.
Richard Nichols pointed out the first part of the process was approved by the City a year
ago.
Carla Olson She informed the Planning Commission that
10275 99th Street the owners of Lot 1 refused to purchase
the land which is the reason they are
purchasing it. She also said they are more
than welcome to buy it.
Chair Swenson closed the Public Hearing.
Planning Commission Comments
None
Richard Nichols motioned to approve the Preliminary and Final Plat for Island
View Estates Second Addition subject to the conditions recommended by Staff.
Seconded by Arleen Nagel.
Voting for the Motion: Jim Kolles, Arleen Nagel, Richard Nichols, Bruce Rask, Ing
Roskaft, Carl Swenson.
Abstained: Eugene Goenner for the reason that Paul Berning is his relative and did
not realize he had a problem with this until this meeting.
Elaine Beatty stated this Item will be on the February 26, 1996 City Council Agenda.
Planning Commission Minutes of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 10.
Bob Kirmis said this is not a Public Hearing. This sketch plan is on the agenda just for
general reviewal and comment. Mr. Kirmis went over his January 25, 1996 Report.
The proposed 30 lot single family residential subdivision would lie upon a 36 acre tract of
land. The subject property also overlays the "Original Townsite" plat. The subject
property is currently zoned A-1, which allows a maximum residential density on one
dwelling unit per 40 acres of land. To accommodate the proposal, the following approvals
would be necessary:
1. Vacation of Original Townsite streets which underlie the subject property.
2. Rezoning of the subject property from A-1, Agricultural Rural Service District
to a PUD, Planned Unit Development designation zoning.
3. Replat/subdivision of the property.
Mr. Kirmis noted that some lots on the sketch plan do not meet the required lot width.
There are drainage issues on the SE corner of the property and providing easements and if
buildable. These issues also need to be addressed.
Chris Bulow, developer, said regarding the southerly lots on the proposal, he is hoping to
allow less frontage but still meet the size requirements. A restriction can be put on them
that they can't be subdivided in the future. The rest of lots will exceed one acre and have
more than 150 feet of frontage. Mr. Bulow said they could meet the frontage
requirements with a half-moon cul-de-sac.
Richard Nichols asked what would be the minimum frontage on the lots that don't meet
the width requirements.
Chris Bulow said there are six lots out of 30 that don't meet the 150 foot requirement but
have 75 foot frontages but have the 100 foot dept.
Chair Swenson asked if this could be corrected.
Chris Bulow said he would need to eliminate 3 lots to make the 150 foot requirements.
He considered moving the road down but there used to be a gravel pit and then it would
be very uneven. He said he could go with the cul-de-sac and meet the frontage
requirement but did not feel it was practical for city to maintain the cul-de-sac.
Eugene Goenner asked if the cul-de-sac was put in, would he be losing land.
Chris Bulow said no and would still maintain the same number lots.
Richard Nichols asked what is the downside of approving as per the sketch plan as to the
impact to the future residents.
Mr. Bulow said the only downside would be for the water and sewer assessments.
Mr. Kirmis said the a precedent would be set.
Planning Commission Meeting Minutes of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 11.
Mr. Bulow said he just wanted to get some feedback from this meeting and if he would
want to proceed with the project.
Chair Swenson stated he would have a hard time agreeing to this.
Richard Nichols said he has a hard time with that many lots with narrow frontage but
doesn't like to see too many cul-de-sacs. He would like to see more frontage in the lots.
Eugene Goenner would like to see 3 lots removed and no cul-de-sacs.
Jim Kolles and Arleen Nagel agreed with this also.
Ing Roskaft stated he had no opinion.
Eugene Goenner questioned if the City has to allow him to develop this.
Chris Bulow said they are able to along CSAH 39.
Mr. Goenner was under the impression they had development rights for all of this since
they had development rights for Bulow Estates.
Bruce Rask stated this developer is trying to accommodate the City with no cul-de-sacs
and the City is trying to eliminate access to CSAH 39. Development is on both the East
and West sides of this. He also pointed out that the City required a temporary cul-de-sac
on 94th Street for future development. Eliminating 3 lots will decrease revenue for the
City.
Larry Fournier asked about a PUD verses moving the Immediate Service Line and if there
is a cost difference between a PUD and rezoning. Mr. Kirmis said a PUD is recommended
because the City is not looking at expanding the Immediate Service Line further west
away from the sewer treatment facility. Typically a PUD will cost more because more
detailed agreement and special issues.
Eugene Goenner asked that a PUD would be used here because it is a special
circumstance and would not be setting a precedent.
Mr. Kirmis replied yes.
Bruce Rask asked what was the justification used to draw the Immediate Service Area
Line leaving this area out.
Eugene Goenner stated if the City Attorney says they have development rights then he
would go along with it but otherwise he would not be in support of this project.
Ing Roskaft felt the PUD will handle the Old Town Site problem.
Larry Koshak doubted their ability of access to CSAH 39 and the service road will have to
be extended.
Richard Nichols felt a PUD is the way to do this and views this a fill-in project.
A show of hands showed that six (6) members of the Planning Commission would be
favor of this project and one (1) was questionable.
Bob Kirmis went over his January 8, 1996 Report.
Planning Commission Minutes of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 12.
Chair Swenson opened the Public Hearing.
No one commented.
Chair Swenson closed the Public Hearing.
Larry Fournier questioned using the 65 MPH since it might be changing.
Bob Kirmis said MnDOT is still using it and using it won't be an issue.
Richard Nichols motioned to adopt the proposed changes as follows:
1. Make an allowance for construction signs in all zoning districts as exempt
signs_ (sign allowed without a permit), In recognition of typical -sign
the amendment would allow larger signs along principal arterial
streets. (Hwy. 101 and I-94 corridors).
2. Amend the real estate development project sign requirements in
residential districts to allow lar-er signs along principal arterial streets.
3. Amend the commercial/industrial district sign req sir .mens o:
A. Establish a maximum sign height for real estate signs.
B. Make an allowance for real estate development signs currently
allowed only in residential zoning districts).
Seconded by Ing Roskaft. All in favor. Motion carried.
Election of Officers:
Chair.
Eugene Goenner nominated Carl Swenson. Richard Nichols seconded.
Arleen Nagel motioned to close nominations. Seconded by Jim Kolles.
All in favor. Motion carried.
Carl Swenson elected Chair
Planning Commission Minutes of February 7, 1996, cont'd. Page 13.
Richard Nichols nominated Eugene Goenner. Arleen Nagel seconded.
Eugene Goenner nominated Richard Nichols.
Richard Nichols declined.
Bruce Rask motioned to close nominations. Seconded by Jim Kolles.
All in favor. Motion carried.
Eugene Goenner elected Vice -Chair
Arleen Nagel nominated Bruce Rask. Eugene Goenner seconded.
Richard Nichols motioned to close nominations. Jim Kolles seconded.
All in favor. Motion carried.
Bruce Rask elected Secretary.
Eugene Goenner asked Larry Fournier what happened to the recommendation to the
Shoreland Designation overlay issue.
Mr. Fournier said the Council decided not to take any action at this time.
Elaine Beatty said the Council had just gone though a long process with the Wild and
Scenic Ordinance and didn't care to bring it up now and possibly at later date.
10- Adjourn_
Ing Roskaft motioned to adjourn. Seconded by Bruce Rask.
All in favor. Motion carried.
Meeting adjourned at 10 PM.
Arleen Nagel, Secretary
Recorded by: Judy Hudson
jeh