Loading...
08-07-96 PCCITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AUGUST 7, 1996 - 8 PM I. Chair Swenson will call meeting to order* Chair Swenson called Planning Commission Meeting to order at 8:00 PM. ROLL CALL: Chair Carl Swenson, Bruce Rask, Ing Roskaft, Richard Nichols, Eugene Goenner, Arleen Nagel, Commissioners. Excused Absence: Jim Kolles Council Representative, Larry Fournier Staff: Bob Kirmis, Assistant Planner, Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Administrator, Carol A. Olson, Secretary. 2. Consideration of the Planning Commission Minutes of July 17, 996, Chair Swenson asked for corrections or additions. There was none. Carl stated that on page seven, the acreage should be changed from 300 to 230 acres. Ing Roskaft motioned to accept the July 17, 1996 Minutes with change. Arleen Nagel seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. This was addressed after Item # 4• 3. HEARING - (Cont.from July 17,1996) Richard Kin anon, 1333 179th Circle, Elk River, MN For the Southeast Quadrant 85th St and Nashua Ave PID#118- 00-204202 1. A CUP for Commercial Outdoor Recreation (9 hole Executive Golf Course) in an A-1, Agricultural Zoned Area. Chair Swenson - at this point two commissioners believe they have a possible conflict and wish to leave. Arleen Nagel and Eugene Goenner left the meeting. Chair Swenson - this CUP request was continued because of questions regarding drainage. Tonight Mr. Koshak, City Engineer, is here to address those issues. He then turned the meeting over to Mr. Koshak. Mr. Koshak reviewed July 2, 1996 letter regarding comments and recommendations to the proposed golf course to be constructed south of 85th Street and east of Nashua Avenue. Storm Water Drainage must be held on site (100 yr storms). Adequate ponding is needed. A drainage plan is required for run off and storage. At least a ten (10) foot easement around the property be provided. Regarding the driveway, 85th Street is believed to be the best access. The City plans to up grade 85th Street in 1997. There are no plans to make Nashua Avenue meet MSA standards at this time. Nashua Avenue to the south is basically a dead end street. One additional thing I require is that boring logs be taken so we can determine the present water table. Concerning the ponds adjacent to Vasseurs Addition, the elevation of the ponds is approximately three to four feet below the existing back yards along Needham, and I'm not sure how these ponds will affect the septic tanks and draintields that exist there. (possible conflict) The developers Engineer may address that. Possibly a permanent monitoring well could be put there to watch where that water table is so it doesn't interfere with the draintields in the adjacent properties. We also PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING of August 7, 1996 cont'd Page 2 recommend buying additional easement of seven (7) feet. (an additional 44 feet of Right Of Way). Regarding the curbing on the parking I recommend concrete bumper curbs. Chair Swenson opened hearing to the Planning Commissioners for questions. Bruce Rask asked if ponds would be higher or lower then they are now and how would that affect things. John Bogart - primarily 99 % will go to the ponds along ditch and storm sewer on Nashua Avenue and 85th Street. Larry Fournier - when we do the 85th Street project we talked about doing a stormsewer project at the same time. Will that project receive any of that water and is it in the Otsego Creek Watershed District. Mr. Koshak - all of this area and Needham area are all in the Otsego Creek Watershed District. They have their own drainage system. All ponds are required to hold stormwater run off on site and provide the minimum amount of sedimentation and treatment. John Bogart, the developer's engineer, presented an exhibit on over head and copies for Commission. The big question is drainage and how it will affect neighboring property. Mr. Bogart went over the ponding system and how it will work. He also stated that the ground water table will have a sufficient chance to rise before it goes into the drainage system we have. Larry Koshak - In the southwest corner, how much drains onto the adjacent farm land. Mr. Bogart provided a drainage map. We have .9 acres which appears to flow in that direction. Current run off rate is 2.66 CFS and after we get done we should have 2.47 so the rate of run off should actually be reduced to the southwest. Larry Koshak - Had not seen the drainage map before tonight and did not have an opportunity to study it, but stated that he certainly would like to reduce flow as much as possible and try to treat the run off as much as possible before it gets off site. John Bogart - all of the land does get put into a pond of one sort or another. Out of the entire parcel only about 3 acres doesn't. Larry Koshak - I'm really interested in boring and the permanent water table and how we can address it as how it relates to neighbors. We don't know what the soils are and I feel that would be pertinent. John Bogart - ok, we can do that, as I stated the ponds will empty fairly quickly to the north measured in hours rather then days. The ground water will drop because of outlet. Ing Roskaft - If during construction you open up a spring how will you control that. John Bogart - At the last meeting there was mention of springs. We do have four ponds, the pond to the east will over flow into the ditch. The southeast and central pond will fill then come into the pipe and flow into next pond thus maintaining the water level. Larry Koshak - there may be some layers with aquifers, but in that elevation they couldn't produce that much of a volume of water. John Bogart - in the unlikely scenario that we do hit a spring, we believe we have addressed that. We are planning to pump out of the ponds to water the greens to lower irrigation costs. PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING of August 7, 1996 cont'd Page 3 Chair Swenson opened the hearing to the public. Floyd Goenner 8013 Nashua Ave.NE - questioned the size of pipe - John Bogart - answered a 12" pipe - Mr. Goenner had questions for the City Engineer concerning the drainage and how it will affect his property. He also asked what he found when inspecting the site. Larry Koshak - explained that is why he was asking for the soil borings, especially in that southeast corner. It is a perched condition. If they are able to lower the water level and drain it off at 938, that certainly is the lowest point topography that I see. Mr. Goenner - Concerned with broadleaf spraying the affect to hay field. Lynn Caswell, developers engineer, we would direct the run off so it runs into the ponds before runs off site. Larry Koshak - They would have to construct a swale along edge of the property which would leave less then one acre that would run down. Lynn Caswell - We can construct a swale and work together on the grades. Loren Nagel 8102 Needham Ave. NE - explained their private drainage system. Concerned with pond #2 and when their system is running full and the golf course dumps more water thru it it will flood us. Larry Koshak - There is a time of concentration which can be provided by the developers engineer if you want. John Bogart - After the course is done, it is our intent that the water leaving the site will be flowing off at a slower rate then it is right now. We will be happy to provide all the drainage calculations to Mr. Koshak. Tom Constant 13776 NE 85th Street - Concerning herbicides, do they get a chance to settle before they get to us. Larry Koshak - We are asking them to provide minimum amount of treatment in those ponds and it must have adequate storage capacity to dilute any herbicides. Phosphorus run off is an issue the important thing is to capture that in the ponds. Chair Swenson closed the public hearing and brought it back to the Planning Commission. Larry Fournier - should the boring information be here before a decision is made. Larry Koshak - I would like to have boring information drainage plan etc. before making a recommendation to the City Council. Richard Nichols - I believe it is a good workable plan. City Engineer will address my concerns of swales and run off, but it looks like a good project. PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING of August 7, 1996 cont'd Page 4 Richard Nichols motioned to approve CUP request subject to the 13 conditions of NAC's report dated July 10, 1996. (Highlight six (6) separate sections requiring Engineer approval. Ing Roskaft seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Elaine Beatty -this will be on the City Council Agenda of August 12, 1996. Arleen Nagel and Eugene Goenner returned to the Planning Commission Meeting Chair Swenson went over procedure for a hearing. Elaine Beatty stated proper Posting and Publishing have been made. Mr. Kirmis went over CUP request. The first condition addresses use and the shop is for personal use and not to be used for commercial or home occupation activities. Condition three addresses the corn crib on the property. This should be removed unless applicant demonstrates a need for its continued existence. This is an isolated site, there is a row of trees. Don't expect any negative impacts provided the seven conditions from NAC's report dated June 26, 1996 are met. Based on review approval of request is recommended. Mr. Schroeder - would like to keep the corn crib to store native grass and wild flower seeds. I do maintain a neat property. Chair Swenson opened the hearing. No one wished to be heard. Hearing was brought back to Planning Commission. Richard Nichols - asked what is your intent with the corn crib. Mr. Schroeder - The only thing standing will be 4x4 posts. There is a concrete slab there that I'd like to leave. Chair Swenson reopened hearing to the public for comment. There was none. Closed public hearing and brought back to Planning Commission. Eugene Goenner motioned to approve Schroeder CUP for accessory building with the elimination of Item #3 (Re: corn crib) of NAC's Recommendation. Richard Nichols seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Elaine Beatty - to be on the City Council Meeting of the August 26, 1996. 5. HEARING - Initiated by the City Council and Planning Commission of Otsego_ 1. An Amendment to the Zoning Ordinance Regarding Side Yard Setbacks (In R-3) Zoning Districts) from 15 feet to 10 feet. Chair Swenson read request. Elaine Beatty stated that the proper Publishing and Postings have been made. PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING of August 7, 1996 cont'd Page 5 Mr. Kirmis - The intent of the side yard setback change is to accommodate homes with three stall garages. Essentially we have two 75 foot lots requiring 15 foot set backs from each side leaving a 45 foot building pad width. Apparently that is not conducive to three stall garage construction. Note that the zoning ordinance, specifically the sewered lot districts which would allow seventy five (75) foot lots do allow ten (10) foot setbacks and this would be consistent with what would be applied if sewered lots where available. Staff feels this makes sense and is consistent with what would apply to a sewered lot scenario as well as provide for some higher value homes associated with three stall garages. Chair Swenson opened hearing to the public. No comments. Brought back to Planning Commission. Arlene Nagel asked Mr. Kirmis if this would to apply to all R-3 development. Bob Kirmis stated that it will apply to all new construction within an R-3 zoning district. You are provided with a little more side lot area. Eugene Goenner regarding sewer district, would we also require drainage easement as in non sewered districts. Bob Kirmis - yes, we would still allow for easements. Chair Swenson asked if the general public had any questions. No one did. Closed the public hearing and brought back to the Planning Commission Ing Roskaft motioned to approve Amendment as presented. Arleen Nagel seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Elaine Beatty stated that this will be on City Council Agenda for August 26, 1996. Chair Swenson -This is a discussion regarding Amendment to the Sign Ordinance. Mr. Kirmis - This has been referred to the Planning Commission by the City Council. City Council has asked Staff to examine both the city's existing business sign requirements and those of surrounding communities. Mr. Kirmis went over NAC's June 24, 1996 Memorandum which summarizes the freestanding business sign requirements for surrounding communities. According to the matrix Otsego is most restrictive in terms of height. In terms of area Otsego is average. We also looked at others for a greater range. Cities such as Buffalo and Maple Grove are somewhat more restrictive. City Council asked for a recommendation in regard to the adequacy of the cities current standards. Basically NAC feels that the 20 foot height requirement is justified. Based on American Planning Assoc. surveys concerning speed of travel and eye sight from car. Both the height and area are adequate to convey a message of business existence. PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING of August 7, 1996 cont'd Page 6 That is consistent with all surrounding communities. In terms of sign height, we could support an amendment to increase to the current sign height to be consistent with the maximum building height standard imposed in the applicable zoning district. We do not feel any increase beyond such limits can be reasonably justified. Beyond that you are getting into a billboard situation. Also to be noted that when sign height is measured, it is measured from the elevation from the street or crown of the roadway. If your site is at a lower elevation then the street, your sign is allowed to be 20 feet above the height of the crown of the roadway. City Council is looking for your thoughts and recommendations on this and whether or not a change would be appropriate and if so what would that be. Larry Fournier stated that the City Council is looking at business signs only not to include billboards at all. Also we are looking at the I- 94 corridor only. The reason it was brought up to the City Council was that businesses in Otsego felt they were at a disadvantage because of surrounding communities allowing larger and higher signs. These businesses would like something better. Bruce Rask - At Albertville the road is 20 feet above the building place. How would that apply? Where would sign be constructed. Mr. Kirmis - at crown of the road. Richard Nichols - personally hate to see us become a billboard area. I could see a slight increase to match more reasonable areas. Increase to height of company building or laced to building area. Chair Swenson - do we want to change what we have. Eugene Goenner - don't know if the height of building is the way to go. Mr. Kirmis another option is to apply the maximum building height in the district. Richard Nichols motioned to allow what is in the ordinance to tie the height to the maximum building height in the district in question and keep the 100 square feet maximum so it would allow going higher but no larger. Eugene Goenner seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Discussion between the motion and the actual vote. Bruce Rask asked if 35 foot building and you put a sign on top the person in front could block me. Chair Swenson stated that this is for free standing signs along the freeway only. Mr. Kirmis - wall signs are a separate issue. The signs are perpendicular to the roadway. There are flexabilities as to how you want to angle the signs. Ing Roskaft We don't have a large area along I-94 and think we need to give more thought to the area. In making a decision I'd like to see us do a study to assess that area. PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING of August 7, 1996 cont'd Page 7 Richard Nichols questioned what the study would cover. One issue the businesses along I-94 are not going to pull traffic off the freeway. We need business but we need realistic standards. I don't see where we need a study. We have the examples of good business decisions in the report. Ing Roskaft - Possibly big manufacturing businesses in that area. Also what is the property like, how high is I-94 above property and Railroad Tracks. I like to leave sign Ordinance. Susan Ackerman - The trees along there were taken down. From I-94 to the Railroad Tracks there is a two and a half to three foot drop. Eugene Goenner asked if this applied to any major arterial or just I-94. Is it separate in the zoning ordinances. Larry Fournier - good point we might be approving something that would affect Hwy 101 I'm not sure. The City Council was just interested in the I-94 corridor. Mr. Kirmis - When addressing the real-estate development signs we allowed higher signs along principal arterial streets, those being Hwy 101 and I-94 so those are in the ordinance now. You can call out I-94 if you want. Chair Swenson - That can be up to the City Council, our recommendation is only for I-94. 7. Any other Planning Commission Bus' There was none. 8. Adjourn Ing Roskaft motioned to adjourn. Bruce Rask seconded. All in favor. Motion carried. Bruce Rask, Secreta Recorded by: Carol A. Olson cao: