02-04-98 PCCITY OF OTSEGO
PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP
FEBRUARY 411998
8 P
OTSEGO CITY HALL
1 Chair Carl Swenson will call meeting er:
Chair Swenson called the Planning Commission Meeting to order at 8 PM.
Roll Call: Planning Commission: Carl Swenson, Ing Roskaft, Bruce Rask,
Eugene Goenner, Richard Nichols, Arleen Nagel, Jim Kolles.
City Council: Mayor Larry Fournier; Councilmembers: Suzanne Ackerman, Mark
Berning, Vern Heidner, Virginia Wendel.
Staff: David Licht, City Planner; Bob Kirmis, Assistant City Planner; John Harwood, City
Engineer; Mike Robertson, City Administrator; Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning
Administrator; Judy Hudson, Deputy Clerk.
Ing Roskaft motioned to approve the December 3,1997 Planning Commission
Minutes. Seconded by Arleen Nagel. All in favor. Motion carried.
Mayor Fournier stated the Planning Commission and City Council are here to work on the
Comprehensive Plan. He feels this is a very important document which will guide the City
over the next few years. He encouraged everyone to work together to discuss the issues
and make decisions in the best interest of Otsego's citizens and that this is not a time for a
personal agenda. Mayor Fournier also encouraged everyone to participate by giving
comments and asking questions. The goal, Mayor Fournier outlined, is to review the
Comprehensive Plan and hold the Public Hearing in July and for Council to consider
adoption shortly thereafter. He thanked everyone for all their hard work.
Chair Swenson turned the Item 3 of the Agenda over to David Licht and Bob Kirmis, the
City Planners.
3 Planning Commission/City Council/Planner Comprehensive Plan Update -
1.
ate_I Comprehensive Plan Update ProcesdSchedule.
Bob Kirmis stated he expects to complete the policy plan draft by the next meeting. The
items covered at this meeting will be incorporated in the draft plan.
Mr. Kirmis reviewed with everyone what will be covered at this meeting as outlined on the
agenda.
Mr. Kirmis went over the attached January 21, 1998 Memorandum on this item.
Planning Commission Meeting and City Council Workshop of Feb. 4, 1998, Pg. 2.
B_ Draft Policies
Mr. Kirmis read each draft policy.
1. All uses shall comply with applicable provisions of the City's zoning and
Subdivision Ordinance and Comprehensive Plan (Policies and Development
Framework).
There was no comment.
2. All uses and development shall comply with all applicable federal, state, and local
laws, rules, regulations and ordinances, including those related to sewer and water
service.
Mr. Kirmis noted the area on the northeast corner of 101 and 42 of the Darkenwald
property where the antique store is currently located. This area is affected by the Wild
and Scenic provisions which prohibit commercial uses. He also noted the DNR is
currently reviewing their provisions along the Mississippi River and there is a possibility of
changes.
3. Use of the current Darkenwald sewer plant, and any expansion thereof, shall be
strictly limited to the present site (Riverbend Mobile Home Park) and land east of
Highway 101, and shall be subject to all applicable current MPCA restrictions.
Presently it would be the City's policy to allow the Darkenwalds to continue to serve their
service area subject to MPCA restrictions, which are in place.
Mr. Kirmis also noted Item #6 represents the opportunity for discussion which would not
take place until such time detailed information regarding private treatment plant capacity
be submitted to the City. The concept of Items #3 and #6, which go together, are that the
Darkenwalds would be allowed serve their present service area. Any City consideration of
allowing them to extend excess capacity to other lands would not be considered until such
time as detailed information is submitted to the City.
Bruce Rask questioned if the Darkenwalds would be allowed to extend services west
(across 101) who would pay for the City sewer pipe running by them. He questioned the
logic of allowing a private system to get bigger since the City is trying to justify a public
system.
CM Wendel questioned if there was an agreement at the time the plant went in for the
Darkenwalds to expand.
Mr. Licht replied the City recognizes there is potential service. There needs to be
submission of plans. This issue needs to be clarified for both parties.
Planning Commission Meeting and City Council Workshop of Feb. 4,1998, Pg. I
4. Any expansion of the facility's existing service area (Riverbend Mobile Home Park)
shall be subject to City approval.
There were no comments.
5. Any sale of private plant capacity to lands not within the existing service area
(Riverbend Mobile Home Park) or to lands west of Highway 101 under the same
ownership as the Riverbend Mobile Home Park, shall be prohibited without a
specific franchise agreement approved by the City.
David explained Item 5 is dealing with the issue if the current owner sells part of this land
and than proposes to service the area. The City is then in a situation that is different from
a single ownership. This isn't necessarily precluding the sale of property, but it is saying
they are in the business of selling sewer capacity. To protect the City, there would have
to be a franchise agreement that there would be another provider in the City. A franchise
agreement is a means to make sure everything is covered.
Eugene Goenner questioned what would be the benefit to the City by allowing a franchise,
especially when the City would have their own pipe going right by.
David Licht stressed this type of decision won't be made at this point and this is a legal
matter.
CM Berning questioned if Item 3 conflicts with Items 5 and 6.
David agreed. He and Bob have discussed this and they agreed this needs to be clarified.
CM Berning also feels that Item 6 doesn't deal with the issue at all. He feels the
Darkenwalds are ready to come in with their plan as soon as the moratorium is off. At
that time the City has to deal with it and he feels it should be dealt with now.
David said there has been no submittal of formal submission of plans.
Mike Robertson noted he recently met with the Darkenwalds. John Harwood and Mike
will be setting up a meeting with them to go over technical information on their sewer and
water systems.
Mr. Licht stated it is not part of Comprehensive Plan to make decisions on a site plan.
CM Berning asked Mayor Fournier and Mike Robertson what has been told to the
Darkenwalds at their meetings with them.
Mike said his meeting has been a "listening meeting" discussing their desire for a
public/private partnership. He feels the next step is exchanging the technical engineering
information.
Mayor Fournier said his communications with the Darkenwalds, usually their
representative, Mr. Odell, is their sharing of information about the possible project.
Ing Roskaft said this plant was put in when Otsego was a Township and approved by the
County. He doesn't know what agreements where made by the Township and County and
how far into the future they can extend. He feels this should be handled by the attorney.
Planning Commission Meeting and City Council Workshop of Feb. 4,1998, Pg. 4.
Mr. Rask stated he feels that as planners, he can't see allowing this plant to expand and he
needs to look at what is the best project for the City.
David Licht noted this is a legal question and needs to be addressed by the City Attorney
at the next session. David cautioned that with the Comprehensive Plan Update, you can't
get down to making decisions at a project level.
Richard Nichols agreed that the City needs a policy to deal with this issue.
6. The issue of delivery of City sewer and water service to the 250 acre area in the
vicinity of the Highway 101/County Road 42 intersection shall be deferred until
such time as the capacity and potential service area of the private package
treatment plant is more clearly defined and documented by the owner.
Mr. Kirmis noted Number 6 has been discussed along with Number 5. He feels a good
point was raised that some of these appear to be in conflict and will address this.
ITT Immediate Urban Service Area Amendment/Expansion Criteria_
Mr. Licht referred to the map outlining the Sewer Service Areas. It is important to
recognize this as a starting point. At this point the City doesn't know who will use the
plant's capacity. There may be property owners that have not yet contacted the City in
this area that may have a desire to use it. The City does not want to allocate the plant's
capacity to someone who will not use it. Mr. Licht suggested a Land Bank System. The
City of Lakeville has used this system. They basically set up a bank account - the bank
account was based upon acres. The first step was to approve the preliminary plat and
assumed it will be developed in phases for final platting. At the time of final plat and
development agreement was signed, land would be taken from the bank and given to that
project. This type of System leaves capacity there for the next person to use it. Land
transferred out would be assumed to be developed in a two year period. The City wants
development to take place so the plant is funded.
The Land Bank System keeps an accounting on capacity and signals the City when they
have to start considering expansion. It also does not give capacity rights to someone who
will not use it.
Mayor Fournier questioned if the land bank size is dependent upon plant capacity -
Otsego's service district is much larger than our plant capacity. How do you define the
initial properties that want to develop to take out of the land bank.
Mr. Licht answered this by referring to the Service Area Map. Within the Intermediate
Service Area, a person has a right to pursue platting. When final plat is approved they
come back to the City for the two year development and are given Immediate Urban
Service Standing - you get a commitment from the Land Bank for that capacity.
Planning Commission Meeting and City Council Workshop of Feb. 4,1998, Pg. 5.
Mayor Fournier also asked if there could be leap -frog development within this service
area.
Mr. Licht said finances will dictate, but what this says is - first come, first service.
Basically, the development will be done logically because of pipe line. The only priority
development will be commercial/industrial which will be given 30% of the sewer capacity.
This bank will allow the City flexibility as the process goes on giving time for the City to
evaluate where they want to go. If the commercial/industrial allotment is not being used,
the City could use this for residential.
Mike Robertson felt this is setting up a situation that once the door is opened, there will be
developments wanting to get their plats approved just to be on top of this list.
Mr. Licht agreed but it is critical that only what is pulled out of the land bank is what will
be developed in two year.
CM Heidner asked what point in time do the assessments start - when they ask for the
capacity.
David Licht assumed so but cautioned these are more detailed questions. At this point
just trying to set up a conceptual system for the City to operate in.
Richard Nichols questioned setting up the Intermediate Urban Service Area and if
someone is first in line to develop in the south and than another half mile off the other
way, they might not.
Mr. Licht responded the City will put the interceptor line in. The coverage is there
running north and south. The other item that needs to be worked out is the Urban Service
Area Reserve. Mr. Licht feels there should be flexibility. If a significant portion of the
land owners in the Immediate Urban Service Area don't want to develop the City should
have a process of where areas outside of the Immediate Urban Service Area can be
brought in and serviced. This would be basically a land trade.
CM Berning asked who would be responsible for the land trade - the land owner.
Mr. Licht agreed and said this is usually acre per acre and this trade can be purchased.
CM Heidner noted than there is a value assigned.
Mr. Licht encouraged to get away from the issue of trading. The concept is to build in
flexibility and not be locked into boundaries. He suggested there may be other ways of
dealing with this.
Mayor Fournier liked the idea of Urban Service Area Reserve. He asked if this plan says
petitions would only apply to such areas.
Mr. Licht said at this point, he doesn't have enough information and hasn't gotten to that
point in the plan. These policies need to get on board soon.
CM Ackerman questioned if residents in the Long Range Urban Service Area petition can
they hook up.
Mr. Licht said the City would view this as a positive element.
John Harwood agreed this area would be a priority but services would have to be
petitioned in.
Mr. Robertson also noted any sewer extension in the Long Range Urban Service Area
would also involve street reconstruction etc., which would have added costs. This, he
Planning Commission Meeting and City Council Workshop of Feb. 4,1998, Pg. 6.
views, would probably not be regarded favorably by all residents and a create a tough
decision process.
Bob Kirmis commented on the Urban Service Area Reserve. One of the ideas was to
define an area should the Intermediate Urban Service Area fill in. (Where would be the
next logical areas to provide service).
Mayor Fournier stated support for the Bank System in that it tells the City when to
consider more capacity.
Mr. Licht also noted something more critical is finances - this assures the City someone
isn't going to take all the capacity and do nothing with it, which the City can't afford.
Eugene Goenner asked what happens if the housing market falls off for one or two years
and someone has taken a large piece and he goes under. Is the City liable.
David Licht referred to the Developers Agreement which guarantees payment through a
Letter of Credit from their banker.
CM Berning sees developments with few houses and lots of cul-de-sacs and questions
what kinds of roads will the City end up with where a new section is being done every
couple of year.
Staff noted these are temporary cul-de-sacs and the planning would be done for the entire
plat. John Harwood said the developer would do a lot of road work in larger sections.
The grading must be done for the drainage. David said all this would be worked out
through the Developer's Agreement.
CM Heidner stated he is not comfortable with landowners trading. If someone is given a
potential benefit they should be assessed for it.
CM Wendel asked how many years before sewer gets to the western part of the Otsego.
Mr. Licht answered this by saying he can't give a time frame. He is working with John
Harwood putting together a County Road 19/39 area plan and will look at sewer options
there. One option is an extension from this plant. Another option is a Package Treatment
Plant and the other option is getting service from the City of Albertville.
Mr. Licht expects to see development in this area. When dealing with the western area
versus the east you have two different situations. Highway 101 has provided the access
and market. The situation on County Rd 19 is dependent to a degree on the City of
Albertville on how they grow and develop, if there would be a new interchange and what
is the feasibility for a Package Treatment Plant for the County Roads 19/39 area.
Mike Robertson noted that John Harwood has scaled off what it would take to sewer the
entire City and it would take roughly 5 million gallons per day treatment plant.
CM Berning said according to a map the staff is keeping, it shows there have been about
14% failed septic systems. If sewer is put in this area, would the entire city fund that
system like it is doing with the current project with no assessments.
Mr. Licht said policies have to be put together but he would assume there would be equal
treatment across the City.
Planning Commission Meeting and City Council Workshop of Feb. 4, 1998, Pg. 7.
Eugene Goenner asked with a 200,000 gpd capacity how many acres would that put into
the bank.
John Harwood replied 70 acres for industrial/commercial and 216 acres for residential.
Richard Nichols asked how many acres in the Sanitary Sewer District.
Mr. Harwood responded he has never computed the acres but the Immediate Urban
Service Area is about 400 acres.
David Licht asked if what has been presented is acceptable.
Richard Nichols said he felt the concept is good and a good way of tracking sewage
capacity usage. He is looking for some understanding, through policy, what the City
would do if someone outside the designated area comes in and wants to be head of the line
but feels this has been touched on. He sees leap frog developing will occur and to adjust
costs according.
Ing Roskaft said if Otsego supplies service to Dayton and the capacity is used up how can
we keep on supplying to Dayton.
Mr. Harwood said as Otsego gets their capacity committed to, Otsego can expand. This
is why Otsego must keep track of commitment and this should not interfere with Dayton.
Arleen Nagel said she likes the Bank System concept but is not comfortable with trading
land.
CM Berning asked if there are any drawbacks to the Banking System.
Mr. Licht said any drawbacks Lakeville had was that they had to go to the Metro Council
with any changes and Otsego won't have that situation.
Bob Kirmis said he had previously questioned Mr. Licht whether he had envision having
Comprehensive Plan Amendment every time a property was given a land bank allocation
but the idea was this would be an Administrative Item.
CM Berning supports the Land Bank system. He also questioned if there would be a large
number of residential approval but no commercial/industrial.
Mr. Licht replied that the City is reserving 30% of the sewer capacity to go towards
commercial/industrial. Over time, you can reallocate and begin expansion.
Bruce Rask referred to the original potential pollution problem areas and felt now the City
has abandoned that area.
David disagreed and said if anyone in the existing area comes in and petitions for services
they will get the service before anyone else.
Carl Swenson stated he sees the Land Bank as an organized approach.
Bob Kirmis suggested the next workshop for February 18th, 1998, 8 PM. This will be on
the February 9, 1998 City Council Agenda for consideration.
Mike Robertson asked if all meetings are to be joint with the Planning Commission and
City Council.
Mr. Licht recommended joint sessions and would prefer not to have these as part of the
regular meetings if there are other agenda items.
Planning Commission Meeting and City Council Workshop of Feb. 4,1998, Pg. 8.
CM Berning questioned Policy Lb. Urban Growth (lots of 10 acres or less in size or
density of one dwelling unit per 10 acres of land or less) shall be confined to the sanitary
sewer service district.
David Licht noted this was discussed at the last joint meeting and decided no further
subdivision unless located in the sewer area. Can still have the one per forty in the rural
area.
Eugene Goenner questioned Policy l.c. Based upon available information and demand
projections, the sanitary sewer service district shall provide a maximum five year supply
for urban development.
Mr. Licht said what is being said is a treatment plant should have a five year capacity
because it typically takes five years to get an expansion on line. The five year is a bench
mark. This can also be subject to change.
Eugene Goenner also questioned 3.b. Sewer District Expansion Criteria. The land lies
within one-quarter mile of the sanitary sewer service district boundary or present
environmental problems that can be alleviated by delivery of City water and sewer service.
His concern was leap -frog development. Do we keep it at a quarter mile or change to half
mile limit or let finance dictate.
John Harwood said he suggested a quarter mile to start with but this should be reviewed
and come up with a policy regarding leap -frog development. It must be a practical and
feasible policy.
CM Berning questioned if the main trunk line can handle the Immediate and Long Range
Service Areas. He also asked if the plant will be capable of meeting the BOD limits on
the Crow River and if so, at what costs.
Mr. Harwood said the trunk line is sized for the entire study area. The plant can handle
the BOD limits.
CM Heidner said what CM Berning is referring to are the loading limits and what the City
has been given are concentration limits and there is a significant difference. The loading
limits are a fixed amount of contaminates no matter what your capacity.
N_ Third Industrial Site
Bob Kirmis reviewed the information in the attached memo.
The NAC Memo outlined the City's inheritance of the former Frankfort Township
Commercial/industrial area. the City now has within its borders an established industrial
area in which lesser performance standards have already been imposed.
Carl Swenson replied that this is a hand made opportunity and supports this
recommendation.
CM Heidner asked if we know what St. Michael plans are for in the area across 101. He
isn't sure if this will take care of the issue. He also questioned if there is enough land
there. Suggested to look at the land north of this area.
Mr. Licht noted this won't be the only area designated for a Third Industrial Site.
Planning Commission Meeting and City Council Workshop of Feb. 4, 1998, Pg. 9.
Eugene Goenner noted that this will create higher land value with the 101 exposure they
will have but don't need. This in turn will decease Hwy 101 space for businesses that need
and want the exposure.
Bruce Rask said they could buy them out, but he discouraged this because the City needs
a place for this type of activity.
Mr. Licht agreed that the land costs along 101 will be higher but some businesses will
need the highway exposure. The City has the building character there now and that won't
change right now. He doesn't see a high price building going in right next to the current
ones.
Mayor Fournier stated he supports this recommendation and views this as an opportunity
for the City to create a Third Industrial Site.
CM Wendel questioned if by creating this Third Industrial Site will it eliminate future
home businesses.
Mr. Licht and Mike Robertson both said no this is about the home businesses with one or
more employees.
CM Wendel also questioned if there could be more industrial zoning over in the triangle
on the north side of CSAH 37.
Mr. Licht explained that whole area is designated for industrial north of CSAH 37. He
advised at some point in time Otsego and Albertville need to discuss sewer services.
But, there are also businesses that do not need sewer service such as large warehouses etc.
Richard Nichols also supported using this area for the Third Industrial Area but not to
expand it.
Ing Roskaft suggested to also review the area south of CSAH 36.
4. Any other Business.
Chair Swenson asked the Planning Commission if they wished to select the 1998 officers.
It was the consensus to wait until the next meeting.
5. Adjourn -
Ing Roskaft motioned to adjourn. Seconded by Bruce Rask. All in favor. Motion
carried.
Meeting adjourned at 10:11 PM.
4c�&,
J _ Kolles, Secretary
Recorded by: Judy Hudson, Deputy Clerk
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