03-25-98 PCCITY OF OTSEGO
PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL
SPECIAL WORKSHOP MEETING
MARCH 25, 1998 - 7:30 P.M.
1 Chair Carl Swenson will call meeting to order:
Chair Carl Swenson called the Special workshop to order at 7:30 P.M.
ROLL CALL:
Planning Commission: Chair; Carl Swenson, Commission members; Ing Roskaft, Arleen
Nagel, and Bruce Rask. Jim Kolles arrived at 7:45P.M., Richard Nichols arrived at 7:55
PM, and Eugene Goenner arrived at 8:03.
City Council: Mayor; Larry Fournier, Council members; Virginia Wendel, Vern Heidner,
Mark Berning and Suzanne Ackerman.
Staff: John Harwood, City Engineer; Bob Kirmis, Assistant City Planner; Mike Robertson,
City Administrator; Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Admin.; Carol Olson, Secretary.
Mayor Fournier - Page 64, Item 27,
Mayor Fournier recommended adding an Item C, to read. "Other areas of the city
where such services would resolve environmental concerns associated with on site
private septic systems and where development may be desirable if such services were
available."
Bruce Rask - Concerned with that promoting leap -frog development.
CM Heidner - Concerned with the expenses incurred if this would cause the City to have
to investigate.
Mike Robertson stated that staff has been directed to investigate those two areas.
Bob Kirmis - The first part is ok, but the second part should be covered in the land Use
Plan. If development in a certain area is considered later, there is the amendment process
available and that is the appropriate process. The function of the plan is to determine
where development should occur.
CM Wendel - Concerned with the western part of the city. Farmers just can't keep on
farming. Some farmers would like to divide their land and put in systems for their area
until sewer hook up is available. They are not interested in keeping it agriculture.
Consensus was to add Item C to read "Other areas of the city where such services
would resolve environmental concerns associated with on site private septic
systems."
? Continue review of Policy Plan, start on page 65 "Governmental Buildings.
Facilities and Services" :
Page 65, Item 6, - CM Berning asked who determines areas to be preserved.
Bob Kirmis - The Heritage Preservation Commission makes recommendation to the City
Council according to a set criteria. No Historic Sites have yet been established.
PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING of
March 25, 1998 cont'd Page 2
Page 66 - Items 13, and 14, - CM Heidner asked if these policies are in comprehensive
plans and is it appropriate.
Consensus was to change police and fire to read "shared services"
Page 66, Item 1, under Parks and Open Space, CM Heidner would like this in conjunction
with the Planning Commission and City Council.
Consensus was to add "Council" after City and make promote plural.
Page 67, Item 9, CM Wendel recommended adding " when financially feasible".
Consensus was to add "when financially feasible" to Items 9, 11, and 14.
Consensus was to delete Items 12, and 13.
Page 69, Item 3, under Policies Eugene Goenner recommended dropping this.
Consensus was to delete Item 3.
Page 70, Item 18, -Mayor Fournier questioned if informal meetings prior to public
hearings was a good idea.
Bob Kirmis - With controversial projects this is a good idea so neighbors aren't surprised.
We would encourage developers to meet with the effected persons and be open to any
concerns.
Mike Robertson - There are times where developer's plans may be modified by input
which also helps at the public hearings.
Page 70, Items 16, thru 19, CM Heidner-Stated that all the items appear to address
meetings prior to the public hearing when any type of development occurred and
questioned it being in the Policy Plan.
Bob Kirmis - The public hearing process could be that means. The City is encouraging
input from residents in all development projects.
Consensus was to delete Item 15.
Item 16, replace structure and program with "opportunity" and replace establish with
"provide".
3 Review Comprehensive Plan Development Framework dated March 12,
1998:
Bob Kirmis Background - This section gets into the plans where maps identify where the
City wants services, future roadways, trails, parks, etc. The graphic plans are very
important with the text being descriptive of the maps. This section is the Concept Plan
which identities general principals to be applied within the City to establish community
identity, build a tax base, protect environmental features, coordinate growth in an orderly
fiscally responsible manner, promote land use compatibility, and utilize the street system.
Page 89, Concept Plan Map:
Bob Kirmis explained that this is an important graphic. It identifies areas of the City
where urban growth is to occur. Where sewered and transitional areas will be. Where
sewer expansion will occur and the transitional area for expansion, etc. The map conveys a
Rural Service Area and Urban Service Area. Within the Urban Service Area there are
three (3) primary areas, the Sanitary Sewer Service District, the Urban Service Area
Reserve, and the Long Range Urban Service Area.
PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING of
March 25, 1998 cont'd Page 3
The Triangle Area is currently identified as the Long Range Urban Service Area in
response to the City of Albertville's Comp. Plan. We are not recommending single family
development unless Otsego and Albertville can work together to provide sewer.
Commercial/Industrial is being promoted in that area, without sewer. The area north of
70th Street has been reserved for Commercial/Industrial.
The Rural Service Area is generally the western area of the city. In the Agricultural
Preserve Area, we are suggesting 1 per 40 density. In the Rural Preserve Area is north of
95th Street a 4 per 40 density is suggested. Within the Rural Preserve Area there is a
Sewer Service Investigation Area. This is an area where the City will implement a policy
to investigate sanitary sewer service intended to overlay Riverwood and the Island View
area. What is determined on this map will reflect on the Land Use Plan.
Chair Swenson turned the meeting over for discussion.
Mayor Fournier - Asked about the north and south line and why the jog in the line.
John Harwood stated that it was based on drainage and watersheds and the line runs down
the center of the street.
CM Heidner - Zone changes occur at the street. Shouldn't this run on the back of
properties.
Bob Kirmis - Running down the center of the street does simplify things. For Comp. Plan
purposes he recommended including Riverbend Mobile Home Park in the Sewer District.
Richard Nichols - questioned the rational for the Rural Preserve Area as a 4 per 40, rather
than the whole area being 1 per 40.
Bob Kirmis - That basically responds to development pressure and the physical amenities.
It is lacking in large scale farm acreage and provides middle ground for residential
development.
Mayor Fournier asked Bob Kirmis to define Reserve and explain how much flexibility it
gives.
Bob Kirmis - The term Reserve is to give the connotation that it is temporary and will
change in the future. Preserve is saying this is what we want for the life of this plan.
Carl Swenson - Regarding the Rural Preserve Area. Stated that the DNR allows two (2)
acre parcels along the river. This doesn't seem right to set this in stone. It has been pretty
well agreed that this is not good farm land, but a good development area. He was
surprised with the Preserve Area.
Bob Kirmis - The density of four units per forty acres is what is being preserved. This
does not address lot size.
He asked for input regarding that density and stated that the Rural Preserve Area will
probably be the most discussed area on this map.
There was much discussion of the Rural Preserve Area. Concerns were competition with
the sewer district, size of the lots, DNR issues, taxable land values, green spaces, and
clustered septic systems.
PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL WORKSHOP MEETING of
March 25, 1998 cont'd Page 4
Mike Robertson had two suggestions; one was mandatory clustering and the other was to
set a density of 1 per 40 if someone wished to independently develop a small area. If the
developer is working with others using clustering, a density of 4 per 40, or 8 per 40 could
be used, etc. which may be an easier way than mandating clustering.
Bob Kirmis - There are ordinances that mandate clustering. The City of Marine on the St.
Croix has an ordinance where clustering is mandatory that we can look at. Also suggested
waiting to see what changes the DNR may make. A draft should be done by the DNR this
fall.
Chair Swenson directed Bob Kirmis to bring the ordinance from Marine on the St. Croix
for review.
Mike Robertson will get the Lake Elmo ordinance for review at the April 1st meeting.
4. Any other business:
Meeting adjourned at 9:35PM
5. Adjourn by 9:30 P.M.
BRUCE RASK MOTIONED TO ADJOURN. RICHARD NICHOLS SECONDED THE MOTION.
ALL IN FAVOR. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
Jim Kolles, Secretary
Recorded by: Carol Olson