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06-24-98 WSCITY OF OTSEGO PC/CC WORKSHOP - RE: COMP. PLAN JUNE 24, 1998 - 8 PM MINUTES 1 Chair Swenson will call the meeting to order (Bruce Rask in his absence.) Mayor Larry Fournier called the meeting to order as both Carl Swenson and Bruce Rask had excused absences at 8:03 PM. ROLL A Mayor Larry Fournier, CM Vern Heidner, CM Virginia Wendel, CM Mark Beming and Planning Commissioners, Arleen Nagel, Richard Nichols, Jim Kolles and Christian Mbanefo were present. Dan Licht, Assistant City Planner, Mike Robertson, City Administrator, and Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Administrator were present. (A number of Otsego residents were also present.) 2 Discussion of Informational Meetings with Dan Licht, Assistant Planner, star with Distric01. Mayor Fournier noted that there would be no public comments during the meeting, and after the meeting we would listen to comments from the public. He then reviewed some of the items he had heard at the Information Meetings by planning district. 1) Develop the Urban Area. 2) When will we see sewer and water? 3) How much will sewer and water cost? 4) Will we have a choice of hooking into sewer? 5) I want to farm free of restrictions and when I want to quit farming, I want to be able to develop. 6) I want a chance to develop if and when I want. 7) Cluster Development 8) I like looking at cornfields and open space, leave Otsego as is. Mayor Fournier noted the key word is choices, and then turned the meeting over to Dan Licht. Dan Licht gave an overview of the responses from resident's surveys and focused on June 24, 1998 NAC Memo regarding Comp. Plan public meeting issues. He went over comments as follows: LAND USE ISSUES - Sanitary Sewer District (Refer to the June 24th NAC Memo) 1. Commercial/Industrial *Amount of Commercial/Industrial (too much vs not enough) CM Wendel noted at the EDAAC Meeting the REC charge was discussed. One person was concerned with the commercial REC charges. Felt we wouldn't get enough Commercial/Industrial. development. Administrator, Robertson explained that the RECS per use is according to the MET Council chart. He will get a copy of the information and copy it to the Planning Commission and City Council. CM Vern Heidner asked if the surveys were split 50/50 both ways as to if they felt more or less Comm./Ind. development was needed. Answered "yes". Mayor Fournier stated the sewer and water project is being done to expand tax base. We have a good amount of Comm./Ind. land designated now. It can be changed later if conditions warrant. CITY OF OTSEGO PC/CC WORKSHOP RE COMP PLAN 6/24/98 8PNI - PAGE 2 - Industrial uses moved closer to Rogers: (From the Co. Rd.42 area south of Hwy 101) CM Wendel asked about the process to change Industrial land use. CM Berning asked if it is wise to have that much Industrial across from the school. Answer: Setback requirement can help that - Major road in between the two uses will separate them. Adm. Robertson noted that the proposed Industrial is not smokestack, but light Industrial which would be more compatible with school or residential uses. CM Wendel noted that we wouldn't have many trucks driving down Hwy 101. Dan Licht felt the trucks would be on Hwy 101. Mayor Fournier asked if people explained why they felt we needed more Industrial land use area? Answer: No - Possibly more tax base. Com. Nichols noted that he felt it is prudent to designate Industrial land use just north of I-94. Mr. Licht noted that the property owner asked for Industrial Zoning by the MN/DOT Research Center (Bajari Property). Com. Goenner asked if that area would be sewered. Answer: The proposal is without sewer. (Would be a Council decision) Mayor Fournier asked what is Albertville planning for it's east side. Answer: Agriculture and Commercial is shown in that area for Albertville according to its Comp Plan. CM Heidner asked if sewer is available in the east area by Albertville. Answer: We need to explore that further. CM Wendel asked if they would be voting on this tonight. Answer: yes Com. Goenner felt there should be no changes in the proposed use. Mayor Fournier questioned this. Felt that non -sewer and water business have should have a place to locate in Otsego. CM Wendel stated that MN/DOT has a 10 Ton road, why not let adjacent property develop Industrial. We cannot say no to everyone who wants to develop. We aren't getting sewer and water there. Why hold them back. Alternate Com., Mbanefo asked why can't we go around Albertville with Industrial zone. Dan Licht explained how we are trying to match similar uses with Albertville's development. CITY OF OTSEGO PC/CC WORKSHOP RE COMP PLAN 6/24/98 8PM -PAGE 3 - There was some discussion on the growth around the Albertville Interchange. The consensus was to change Bajari's land to Industrial and the tree farm to Commercial. Com. Goenner felt that the tree farm site was spot zoning. Mr. Licht said not as long as Albertville has Commercial in that area. * Land use compatibility of Industrial/Med-High Density uses with school Mr. Licht revisited the compatibility issue by the Otsego School. We can put in the Comp. Plan to revisit that area later. There were no objections to this. * .SAH 39/42 and Hwy 101 Area: Establish "downtown" commercial character at CSAH 39/42 & Hwy 101 possible CBD zoning district. Com. Goenner said he couldn't see an old downtown district for Otsego. Mr. Licht explained, we would try to blend with the Central Business Zoning District with the building in front and the parking behind. The landscaping will probably take longer. It depends on the demands for the sites. Com. Goenner said people can come in the back of the building with the facade front. Com. Nichols said that type of design killed the Elk River Center, why would we want to do that. Mr. Licht - Depends on the look and use. You can do a combination with landscaping. Question is, should we put it in the plan. Com. Nichols is in favor of it, but we have to be careful of the criteria, done right it can work. After discussion the consensus was that the city would encourage a Central Business District with decision on details to occur later. *Concern about Commercial use guided northeast of CSAH 42/39 Com. Kolles noted that some people commented there was too much proposed Industrial area. He asked if we have enough Commercial area. Mr. Licht commented that we can change it now or leave it and respond to development requests. The advantage of the large Industrial area is there is room for a large company if there is a request. CM Berning asked if we have enough Commercial on the west side of Hwy 101. There may be more residents wanting to shop in Otsego. CM Heidner asked if people think we have too much Commercial/Industrial. What is the alternative? CM Berning thought it should be more Commercial in the north part of the Industrial area on Hwy 101 and we could add more Industrial to the north of 65th where there is better access from Co. Rd. 37. CM Wendel said one property owner said he had no intention of selling (Kevin LeFebvre's property) for development. * SA /Highway 101 area (Darkenwald) south westquadrant Commercial development or expansion of mobile home nark= Mr. Licht discussed the Darkenwald property area. Any changes on the west side of Hwy 101 will be considered later. CITY OF OTSEGO PC/CC WORKSHOP RE COMP PLAN 6/24/98 8 PM - PAGE 4 - It is now guided as Commercial at the intersection of Hwy 101 and Co. Rd. 42. Administrator, Robertson felt due to Co. Rd. 42 and traffic coming from Dayton that this is a prime Commercial intersection. Mr. Licht stated that this is the second best area for Commercial development in Otsego. All agreed. x� Change high density residential to Industrial in the area southwest of Hwy 101 and Co. Rd.42. CM Ackerman noted that due to Industrial uses and high density, why would anyone build a house on Hwy 101? Question of Commercial. Same impact as Industrial with Commercial. CM Wendel asked why not leave it as it is. If Industrial is wanted, the plan can be changed. The large Industrial area was noted to the northeast, the top part of it should be Commercial. When the Comp. Plan is revised and adopted and the Zoning Ordinance is adopted, we will create criteria outlining how it would be rezoned. Com. Goenner questioned the north end (Sec 15) of the Long Range Urban Reserve Area, and if it is included in the Sanitary Sewer Service Area. Adm. Robertson noted that it needed a lift station, but that it was in the sewer area. More discussion and Mayor Fournier noted that sewer would be provided when petitioned to the City. Noted that low density area has a 12,000 sq. ft. minimum lot size. (3 per acre) Comments of half acre or one acre lots being less efficient and more costly. Mayor Fournier noted that other areas of the City will have larger lots. CM Benning asked what size home is average for a 12,000 sq. ft. lot. Dan Licht thought 1,500 to 2,000 sq. ft. homes, was estimated. Adm. Robertson said one trend is more house on a lot with 2,500 to 3,000 sq. ft. homes. Com. Nichols said the real issue is with re -subdivision of existing one acre lots. Asked what we are looking for? Answer: 12,000 sq. ft. lots, three per acre, are you comfortable with that? Answer: yes. Robertson noted that there were strong objections to the proposed from the adjacent single family residents. Com. Nichols asked if State or Federal laws preclude us from changing all the medium density. Answer: No, Mr. Licht stated that high density uses are for the work force, an aging population, and are a valuable asset. Com. Nichols asked if we have design guidelines in our current Ordinance? Answer: Yes, and Zoning Districts are in place as well. The compatibility with adjacent land uses is an issue. How many acres in the plan are for med/high density? There is nothing wrong with starter housing, but we need standards in place. Com. Goenner felt 400 acres of this type of use seemed like a lot. Mr. Licht stated that this is a 20 year plan. Adm. Robertson did not see a problem with the compatibility issue when the Industrial/Comm. is already there. CITY OF OTSEGO PC/CC WORKSHOP RE COMP PLAN 6/24/98 8 PM - PAGE 5 - Mayor Fournier asked how defined the boundaries of the Urban Service Area Reserve are. One property owner wanted the line drawn straight down from Nashua Ave. The issue being, his property is on both sides of the current boundary. Mayor Fournier asked, "Is there a problem with that?". Mr. Licht stated that the line follows the road which creates a natural boundary. Com. Nichols thought that it should be drawn straight. Com. Goenner felt we should leave it as is following natural roads/lines there. CM Wendel questioned is the line actually dividing the property. Answer: yes half is on one side and half on the other. Adm. Robertson asked if the boundary should run along the future extension of Nashua Avenue. CM Wendel asked if future development in that area would be a problem. Mr. Licht said future changes would require a Comp Plan amendment. Com. Nagel stated that she liked the line as it is. Com. Nichols stated that we have to do what makes sense. The consensus was to leave the line as is. Mayor Fournier stated that he did not like to take away something they already have. It is guided 4 per 40 now. Com. Goenner felt it was harder to run sewer in and concern is to allow 4 per 40's hook up to sewer. CM Wendel asked if septics are allowed on 4 per 40's. Consensus was to leave it 4 per 40. Com. Goenner and CM Berning disagreed with the consensus. Com. Nichols said we are assuming that all this area will be sewered someday. He questioned that, saying that a mixture of sewered development and 10 acre lots would be OK with him. The 10 acre lots can still be subdivided later. It gives people another option. Petition for service in Urban Service Area Reserve. CM Wendel - We have someone next to the plant that wants to develop, can we include them in the Immediate Service Area now? Mr. Licht - The Council can consider that. The development depends on Hwy 36 for access. The critical issue is the road access and yearly flooding. Mayor Fournier agreed the road needs attention, but they can get out to the east if the road is flooded. He feels this is the appropriate time to include that property in, it meets the goal. Com. Nichols agreed that property should be allowed to develop with sewer. CM Berning asked why that is different from the 4 per 40. Mr. Licht said because it is lower density and hooked up to sewer. Adm. Robertson - One concern is the future expansion of the sewer plant, with allowing more residents in the area that will object to plant expansion in the future. Com. Nichols - In the future the City will buy more land, we are talking decades down the road before we would need to buy more land for expansion. CM Heidner stated it is not an issue as the plant has to go east. Com. Goenner is concerned where we draw the line. Mr. Licht - The issue in favor is the sewer line to existing properties. Alt. Com. Mbanefo had a concern with road infrastructure in the area being adequate. Mr. Licht said we can show it on our Comp. Plan and Wright County can comment on that. Any indication of anyone else in that area wanting development? The consensus was to change the Comp. Plan to allow these parcels in the Immediate Sewer Service Area. CITY OF OTSEGO PC/CC WORKSHOP RE COMP PLAN 6/24/98 8PM - PAGE 6 - Urban Service Area Reserve: Rural Cluster - CM Berning - If we allow cluster housing we shut down the area for sewer in the future. Clustering without permanent open space easement is OK. Com. Nichols objected to higher density. Mayor Fournier asked if we would consider clustering at higher densities. Mr. Licht - Unless permanent open space easement clustering, we are talking about raising the density in those areas higher than three per acre. CM Heidner suggested waiting to see any proposal in the Long Range Urban Service area. North of Industrial area of Albertville, a property owner wants Commercial designation on his property with septic and well (80 acres of land total). Consensus was to leave it out, until sewer and water gets there it is premature. CM Wendel disagreed, you can see it from I-94 and should be Commercial now. Others noted it is not the most accessible Commercial location. CM Wendel regarding Becker's land, asked what the land use was. Answer: Low density residential which mirrors adjacent land use in Albertville. MEETING DATE FOR CONTINUING THIS WILL BE AT REGULAR PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING ON JULY 1, 1998 AT 8 PM. It was noted that Paul Levenson's land issue will be reviewed at the July lst meeting. 4. Adjourn: RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO ADJOURN. SUZANNE ACKERMAN SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. Meeting adjourned at 10:35 PM. ginutes by Elaine Beatty, City Clerkfr notes eb File: PCCCWKSP.WPS