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08-05-98 PCCITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING AUGUST 5,1998 - 8 PM MINUTES 1 Chair Carl Swenson will call the meeting to order: Chair Swenson called the Planning Commission Meeting to order at 8:00pm. ROLL CALL: Present: Carl Swenson, Chair; Planning Commission Members; Bruce Rask, Eugene Goenner, Jim Kolles, Arleen Nagel, Richard Nichols, Christian Mbanefo. Ing Roskaft had an excused absence. Mayor Larry Fournier, Vern Heidner, P.C. Council Rep., Virginia Wendel, Suzanne Ackerman and Mark Berning Council Members were also present. Staff: Dan Licht, Assistant City Planner; Mike Robertson, City Administrator; Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Administrator 2 Consideration of the Planning Commission Minutes of June 3, 4,x,10,1998 Informational Meetings and Regular Planning Commission Meetings of June 24 and July 1, 1998. A PC/CC Meeting of June 3,4,9,10,1998: RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED ADOPTION AS WRITTEN. ARLEEN NAGEL SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY B Planning Commission/Council Workshop Meeting of June 24,1998: RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED ADOPTION AS WRITTEN. CHRISTIAN MBANEFO SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. C Planning Commission Meeting of my 1,1998: RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED ADOPTION AS WRITTEN. ARLEEN NAGEL SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 3 Public Hearing for applicant/Owner Keith E Knutson, 6630 Odean Avenue NE, Otsego MN 55330 PID#118-500-332401 South of 70th Street on Odean Ave NE in Sec 33, Twp 121, R 23, Wright Co MN Request is as follows: A Conditional Use Permit to allow the following: A. In excess of 2,000 square feet of accessory building space B. A pole frame constructed building C. An Ornamental Wind Device (Approximately 45' high) Chair Swenson explained the proper procedure for Public Hearings. Dan Licht, Assistant City Planner from NAC explained his report dated July 28, 1998. He read the seven (7) conditions for the Conditional Use Permit Re: More than one detached Accessory building, pole frame constructed building in excess of 2,000 sq. ft. He also read the three (3) conditions regarding the ornamental windmill Conditional Use Permit. Chair Swenson asked the applicant if he wished to speak. Mr. Knutson stated that he can take two of the sheds down, but he has five acres of land and he needs the shed on the north portion of the lot. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 5, 1998 AT 8PM - PAGE 2 - He has bought a new metal building to replace one of the existing sheds. He agrees that the sheds are in a state of disrepair. Chair Swenson owned the hearing to the Public. No one spoke. The discussion came back to the Planning Commission: Commissioner Nichols questioned the new building not being put up yet, is it part of this application? Answer, no. Mr. Knutson stated the 10 x 10 shed is rusty and he bought a new one to replace it. The storage building closer to the house is a frame building. He intends to remodel it and make it match the house. No one spoke. Chair Swenson Closed the Public Hearing, The Planning Commission continued dic . us ion: Commissioner Goenner noted he had driven by the property and agreed that the two utility sheds are not looking that great. There were allot of other things scattered around. He feels with 6,000 sq ft of accessory space, it is the best interest of the City for the smaller buildings to be removed. Chair Swenson asked if there is a second story on the building? Answer, no. Mr. Knutson explained the modified post frame building style. The existing shed by the pole building site, he could remove that. The North end of the property, he needs the buildings. Commissioner Nichols questioned Item #4 same or suitable quality finishing materials. Does that include or exclude the red building finish? Dan Licht explained and read from the ordinance. He felt it was not the materials, but the compatibility issue. Discussion of color of building being all red. No, it will have white trim._The type of steel is G-90 galvanized 29 gauge steel. More discussion of sheet metal, and it not being allowed in the City. The surrounding area has similar buildings was noted. "Like building material". The consensus of the P.C. was to approve same. #1 MOTION:(INCLUDES A. AND B. ABOVE) COMMISSIONER NICHOLS MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE CUP TO ALLOW CONSTRUCTION OF AN ACCESSORY POLE BUILDING GREATER THAN 1,500 SQUARE FEET IN SIZE, WITH TOTAL ACCESSORY AREA GREATER THAN 2,000 SQUARE FEET, AND MORE THAN ONE DETACHED ACCESSORY STRUCTURE, SUBJECT TO CONDITIONS 1 - 7 OF NAC'S REPORT DATED JULY 28, 1998. EUGENE GOENNER SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 5,1998 AT 8PM - PAGE 3 - CUP for an Ornamental wind device was discussed Commissioner Nichols questioned if the applicant could set the windmill 35' back instead of 30' to come into compliance with the required setback. Answer, Yes. After the post frame building is built, he will decide where to place the windmill. 42 MOTION:(C ABOVE) COMMISSIONER NICHOLS MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW THE CONSTRUCTION OF AN ORNAMENTAL WINDMILL WITH A HEIGHT OF 45 FEET, SUBJECT TO THE THREE CONDITIONS OF NAC'S REPORT DATED JULY 28, 1998 AND THE WINDMILL BEING WITHIN IN THE REQUIRED ORDINANCE SETBACKS. COMMISSIONER MBANEFO SECONDED THE MOTION. LOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY These items will he on the August 10,1998 City Council Meeting at 6:30PM. 4. Comprehensive Plan: Chair Swenson turned the meeting over to Mayor Fournier who welcomed everyone. He stated he wanted to go to Item B, to set the Hearing date for the Comp. Plan. CM Wendel agreed ASAP to set the Hearing. Commissioner Goenner wants the plan completed first and he explained further. CM Wendel said we promised a July Hearing, we need to set a date and get the moratorium off so development in the East can get started. Mayor Fournier stated the City has bonded for the sewer and water project and has to have development in order to pay for the system. Commissioner Rask asked what is the time frame? Mayor Fournier said he wanted to look at preliminary plats this fall and have construction with hookup in late 1999. Commissioner Rask said he felt we should be timely, but he does not care about developers. Is the City ready is more important. He does not want a premature decision. CM Heidner stated we are neither delaying or speeding up for any one land owner, why don't we get it done. Discussion of how much time Dan Licht needs to get the document together. Dan explained the Comp. Plan is almost ready to go and asked how much time is needed to review by City officials. He could have it ready for Sept. 2nd. Hearing. The week of August 17th, he could have the report ready. He assumes the Council and P.C. want to review it again B Set Public Hearing date for Comp Plan COMMISSIONER RASK MOTIONED FOR SEPTEMBER 2, 1998 AT 8PM BE NOTICED FOR A PUBLIC HEARING FOR THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. COMMISSIONER NICHOLS SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED WITH COMMISSIONER GOENNER VOTING AGAINST. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 5,1998 AT 8PM - PAGE 4 - A Continue review of the Section 8 An Area with new information from the Planner, Dan Licht provided additional information and his NAC August 4, 1998 report was distributed which showed the effects of different development densities. He reviewed NAC's Memo with an overhead. He showed a map of farmsteads with animals, large parcels and residential users. The Western part of the City has 31 farmsteads with animals, 20 with no animals, and 119 residential use properties. He also showed the effect on future development of the 300 feet existing setbacks from feedlots, and reciprocal setbacks of 300 feet from either farm or residential. Dan noted that the current 300' setback from a feedlot, or establishing a 300' reciprocal setback, both leave some large areas for future development as either feedlots or housing. Chair Swenson asked if the setback of the farm is from the edge of the property or the building? Dan explained this is showed with setback from existing buildings and the residential buildings shown from property line out. It was noted that with reciprocal setbacks, you are increasing the non -conformities. Dan explained the Council would decide how to deal with non -conformities. Dan Licht also demonstrated the effects of 1,000 ft reciprocal setback on the map with the overlay of wetlands, water bodies. He noted with a 1500 ft setback, you are reduced to only 40 acres of open space in the middle of the area. The AG. area property ownership was showed and passed out to the audience. Dan stated that it shows quite a few large properties. Dan cautioned that a lot of assumptions were used to make these maps. He viewed lot splits and development rights and looked at how many development rights were used and how many were left. He explained the map and the one per forty, eight per forty and ten per forty development densities.. He reviewed the chart on Page #I and on page #2 the ranges of future possible development based on the varying densities were shown. Mayor Fournier again started discussion/question period. Commissioner Rask felt we should support farm activity. He will support one per forty, but not higher density. It is a bad business decision for the City to let it develop. He will not support higher density development on the West side of town unless someone can show him how it will receive sewer, water, and other services, without bankrupting the City. CM Wendel - She is for farmers farming if they want and also developing if they want. Mayor Fournier asked what we should do with the Ag. Area? Christian Mbanefo said last meeting he was going back and forth on what to do. We are at an impasse. Would it be best to stay Ag or split it up? It makes sense to protect the farmers. He felt allowing development would cause more conflict. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 5,1998 AT SPM - PAGE 5 - CM Ackerman - Stated she was going back and forth also. She supported 5 -acre lots close to Nashua Avenue, and then 10 to twenty acres going West to Monticello Township. That way we could save green space. Mayor Fournier asked CM Ackerman if there would be any buffer area for the farms? CM Ackerman said leave it as it is now. Commissioner Rask said let the land owners figure it out themselves? We can't do that. It is not good planning. It won't work. We have to decide if we support farms or not. 1000 ft setbacks leave nothing left of the City, it is a waste of time. 300 ft setbacks will support farmers West of Nashua. Farmers do not have god given rights to develop at a higher density. One per forty I will support. If you out vote me, I support pumping septic every two years. Commissioner Nichols said we need some middle ground. You need larger areas on perimeter to allow larger developments like 4 in 40 and try to keep the center of the City as concentrated Ag area and allow one in forty. You would have to change the ordinance and end up with development coming from both ends. Monticello has more housing on the West border than we do. The area East of Nashua is the future development area of the City, with open land and less homes than the area of Ag Preserve. We need staged development or it won't work. Commissioner Nagel said she feels it should remain mainly Ag. If you develop without water and sewer, we will run into a problem until Albertville says sewer is available. She supports it remaining Ag. CM Heidner talked about Dan's figures and how they added up. Dan Licht explained it was a cross-over between his field inspection and the map he got from Mr. Goenner. Commissioner Kolles liked Richard Nichols idea. He didn't believe there should be any increase in the 300 ft setbacks. Feedlots with recripical setbacks might be prohibitive in that area. Commissioner Kolles did not know of anywhere in Otsego where there is room for a 500 to 700 dairy cow herd. He felt 200 to 300 dairy cow herd, strictly a family farm operation, would be the largest he would want in Otsego. CM Heidner agreed with Jim Kolles. Three hundred feet setback area is a concern only with larger operations. He is not opposed to new feedlots with limited maximum size. The current operations are allowed to expand. Concerned with 200 acres with 10,000 animal units. People here now should be allowed to expand. CM Berning questioned Dan on reports on the tax base that a house generates - low density houses are not favorable. How about 10 acre lots? Dan answered that the intent is to encourage higher value homes at a certain size and quality for the 10 acre lots. He referred to Medina, Corcoran and Plymouth that are flat areas in which 10 acre housing occurs. He did not know if the market exists for this in Otsego. CM Berning said in the past Albertville has said we can give you sewer, but we want the land and tax base as part of it. Commissioner Rask said he would pay for sewer, but did not want to give up land or taxes to Albertville. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 5,1998 AT SPM - PAGE 6 - CM Berning said that if we go with supporting Ag, it goes against what the City has been doing for the last 4 to 5 years. He is worried that the City would change its mind two years later. CM Wendel said the people on the West will probably not move to the East side of Otsego anyway. It is the persons choice. Commissioner Rask said he does not see this any more than a 10 year plan. If we do not support farming, we need an ordinance to do rural development, clusters, etc. He urged the Council to go to Albertville and work out a plan for sewer. CM Heidner asked the Ag. business owners about investments in a new barn, etc., how long do you need to use it to pay for itself? Commissioner Goenner said he needs a 15 year minimum if any capitol is put in. CM Heidner said therein is the problem. We have grown too fast in the past and he doesn't feel we can give them a plan to take to the bank. Chair Swenson said if West of Kadler area we want to allow development and support farms in the middle, people who want to build could buy the 10 acres and some land would develop on the edge of the City. It may help credibility to go ahead with a phased approach that is slow. Bruce Rask supported Carl Swenson if there is a 300' setback as it would be more houses encroaching on farms. How long would it take for the East side infill to fill up? 10 to 20 years Dan estimated. Richard Nichols thought Vern raised a good point. Less than 2 years ago feedlot ordinance was passed. This points out you have to write a comp plan and stick to it. You cannot write a plan and change it. CM Heidner said that it has been 8 years since the City looked at changes in the Comp. Plan. CM Heidner said he has not heard any criticisms of allowing development W. of Kadler. Gene Goenner said it knocks out 1/3 of the City. The E 1/2 receives pressure no matter what. 1/3 of the City would be an Ag area. Those roads West of Kadler are currently the least maintained. CM Wendel felt most of the people at the last meeting were from County Road 19 and West. Not everybody wants to develop. Ken Zimmer and Floyd Roden want to develop. West on 70TH developers want to develop. It is about time we listen to our taxpayers. Mayor Fournier agreed with Bruce that development needs to be orderly. How much we support Ag uses need to be determined. If not willing to support Ag uses, offer farmers 4 per 40 or higher density with City approved sewer and water. You have to provide a buffer zone for existing farms to prevent encroachment. Richard Nichols does not support industrial use of animal Ag. He supports family farms, but does not think there is any place in the City for the large scale operations. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 5,1998 AT SPM - PAGE 7 - CM Wendel asked for a clarification. Does the P.C. recommend and the Council approves or disapproves? Mayor Fournier explained that is true, but for both groups to meet together and develop a consensus is very helpful. CM Heidner said large animal unit operations, there is no place in Otsego for them. CM Berning said MPCA will dictate the amount of animal units allowed according to the size and type of land. Commissioner Christian Mbanefo felt things change and we have to start somewhere. At 7,000 acres, how many animal units will the Western part of Otsego support? Bruce Rask - Why do we care if MPCA sets the limit? Richard Nichols did not feel that would work. He proposed to allow the area West of Kadler 4 in 40 and 1 acre lots in the rest of the West. Then haggle out what the feedlot ordinance should be. CM Wendel would like to see Co. Rd. #19 W as the boundary for development 4 per 40. Gene Goenner said if you make it W of 19, you may just as well make it Nashua. Mayor Fournier asked if we should come back in a week? Chair Swenson felt we should get a consensus and see if the majority would go along with the 4 per 40 W. of Kadler. CM Wendel questioned the Rodens and Zimmers who have requested to develop. She was answered that it is already in the plan development there can happen with sewer and water. Mayor Fournier - Maybe it is appropriate to wait until the Albertville/Otsego meeting to see what can be worked out about sewer. Mike Robertson explained that all Albertville wants to discuss is a potential sewer area. He said that Albertville cannot serve land in Otsego without expanding their sewer plant. 5 to 6 years is a very optimistic timeline to get sewer and water from Albertville to Otsego. At least 20 years before it could get to the Mississippi River. The next expansion will cost big dollars. Chair Swenson felt we should move ahead now if the best judgment for Albertville sewer and water is 5 to 10 years away. CM Heidner asked where are the farms that want to expand? Maybe we are going about this the wrong way. Bruce Rask said we are looking at 31 people and we can decide if it is farmland. If sewer comes in, we can support it. What is the rational for more development next to a Township? Christian Mbanefo - Poor infrastructure W. of Kadler so why increase the density? Mayor Fournier suggested to wait until the Council meets with Albertville and then come back on the 13th of August. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF AUGUST 5,1998 AT 8PM - PAGE 8 - AUGUST 13 1998 AT 8PM WAS SET FOR THE NEXT PLANNING COMMISSION/COUNCIL JOINT MEETING. (MAYOR FOURNIER NOTED THAT THE GOAL OF THAT MEETING IS TO RESOLVE THIS ISSUE) 5 Any other Planning Commission Business There was none b. Adjourn EUGENE GOENNER MOTIONED TO ADJOURN AT 10:50PM. CHRISTIAN MBANEFO SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 0 O'C4. Z:� �'�/ J&AIES KOLLES, SECRETARY NUNUTES RECORDED BY: ELAINE BEATTY EB FII.E: PC8-5-98.VYPS