10-07-98 PCCITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING
MINUTES
OCTOBER 7, 1998 - 8PM
1. Chair Carl Swenson will call meeting to order•
Vice Chair Bruce Rask called the meeting to order in Chair Swenson's absence at
8: IOPM.
Planning Commissioners Bruce Rask, Arleen Nagel, Richard Nichols, Jim Kolles and Gene
Goenner were present. Commissioners Christian Mbanefo and Chair Carl Swenson arrived late. Ing
Roskaft had an excused absence.
Also present were Vern Heidner, Council Rep. Daniel Licht, Planner, Mike Robertson, City
Administrator, and Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Administrator.
Mayor Fournier, CM Wendel and CM Ackerman also attended the meeting.
2. Consideration of the Planning Commission Minutes of:
A. Planning Commission Meeting of September 9, 1998
RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO ACCEPT THE MINUTES AS WRITTEN. JIM KOLLES
SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
B. Planning Commission Meeting of September 16, 1998
RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO ADOPT THE MINUTES WITH THE CORRECTION AS
ALREADY MADE. ARLEEN NAGEL SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
3. PUBLIC HEARINGInitiated by applicant/owner Jeff Ophoven, IKO Hags LLC, 19315
Co. Road 30, Corcoran, MN 55304 PID #118-802-0022104, in Section 2, Township, Ranges 2
Legal description is on file at Otsego City Hall Property is 3.14 Acres 1-1 Zoned property East of
State Highway #101, N. of Co Rd #36 and West of Queens Avenue NE Request is as follows:
1. A Planned Unit D v lopment/Conditional Use Permit to -allow mor hap on
principal use. on on site and allow ac of �rbing in front of the building due to
the nature of the business
Elaine Beatty noted that the proper posting, mailing and publishing has been completed.
Dan Licht, Assistant Planner explained the NAC Report dated September 9, 1998. Concrete
curb and gutter needs to be considered and they need a landscape plan . Signage; 2 -wall signs and I -
freestanding sign is recommended, which would require removal of an existing free-standing sign. PUD
is for two principal structures on one lot. NAC recommends approval subject to conditions on Page
No'. 2, Numbers 1 - 12 which were read. Applicant had no comments. City Engineers Report of October
6, 1998 was explained by Mike Robertson.
Vice Chair Rask noted the Hearing formal procedure printed on the back of the P.C. Agenda.
The Hearing was Opened to the Public. No one spoke.
Hearing was brought back to the P.C. for discussion.
Discussion of curb and gutter. Staff has recommended that the South and
West Two sides of the new parking lot would be required to be curb &
gutter. Greg Ebert, Contractor stated that with snowmobiles and ATV's
it is hard to have curbing, it's not the cost of the curb. Greg Ebert
is also the builder of Elk River Collision and they only put curbing on
the new portion of the parking lot. Jeff Ophoven asked if he should
wait until the Ordinance is finished with the lesser standards? Dan
stated this is a policy decision and needs to be decided for this area.
Dan stated that the curb and tetter is only recommended fpr the parkin -
lot of the new bijilelina. not the older- istina b1lild-InCt Discussion
of the accesses on Queens Ave. and that one is for Franklin sign for
access to their billboard which will be removed in the year 2002. It is
not used very often. niscussion if building could have vertical siding
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF OCTOBER 7, 1998 - 8PM
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when the other buildings have horizontal siding PC thought it should
be matched.
Vice Chair Rask asked if anyone else wished to speak. No one did
The Public Hearing was closed.
Discussion if curbing was for water drainage or aesthetics? It is for
both,—Some discussion of unloading vehicles and where it is done. Greg
Ebert said there is not a problem with water storage on the lot. Mike
Robertson said he did not feel the City Engineer would have a problem
with drive over curb for the parking lot. Applicant agreed with that.
Discussion of class 5 or grass for the outside storage area.
Applicant prefers the grass. Looks better and keeps it mowed Dan Licht
said the concern is if the operation should change owners. we want to
be proactive.
Discussion of chain link fence around mini -storage. None is
planned. Some discussion of screening the garbage container. It is
needed.
RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND APPROVAL OF THE Pvn/cvP Folz
4 PUBLIC ARING ini iat d by applicant/owner Mark T Ahmann and Tere e P Ahmann 9426
Large Court NE„ Otsego, MN 55330 PID #118-156-001050, in Sec 13,TYyp, 121, Range 24 Legal
description is Lot 5, Block 1, Rolling Ridge Creek The property is Zoned A-1 (General
Agricultural - Rural Service Areal Located South of County Road #39 and Fast of County Rd. #19
(LaBeaux) City of Otsego, Wrighto nty, Mn N Request is as follows:
1. A Conditional Use Permit to allow the following
A. Accessory building size greater than 1,5500 sq. ft. on
single family lot
B. Total accessory area greater than 2,000 sq ft on a single
family lot.
D. Pole building construction within the A-1 (General
Agricultural District) Note: Applicant will build a 2x4
constructed building if necessary)
Elaine Beatty noted that the proper publication, posting and mailing had been completed.
Dan Licht gave NAC's Report dated September 28, 1998. The applicant has proposed to brick
the front of the building to improve appearance and compatibility. The City Engineers Report was noted.
Drainage, location of the building may cause a problem. The City Engr. recommends that the Building
Official verify if there is still a second septic site available. The possible
wetland impact was noted. The area is more residential than Ag in character. Compatibility is an issue.
Pole building with metal siding is being proposed. Conditions were read by Dan Licht.
Applicant Ahmann spoke and said he has talked to his neighbors and they have no problems with
this proposal except one neighbor didn't like the pole building construction. He will build a 2 x 4
constructed building. He was also going to put the building further back to the corner 10' from the
sideline and 15' from the rear, which is further away from the drainage ditch. An alternate mound system
is laid out, he will not be coming any closer to that. He has planted pine trees for screening, they did not
grow. He will plant others. He will construct a berm to drain into the drainage easement. It would go
West first and then to the North.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF OCTOBER 7, 1998 - SPM
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Public Hearing was Opened to the Public by Vice Chair Rask. He noted the proper Hearing information
on the back of the agenda.
No one from the Public spoke.
The discussion was brought back to the Planning Commission.
Jim Kolles felt this was too large of a building for a residential area. 3200 sq ft. This is not the
proper place for this type of building.
Mr. Ahmann stated that this is the maximum size building and he may go smaller than that.
Forty foot wide is standard, but may not go 80' deep. This is surrounded totally by Ag area. The planning
report said they anticipate the Ag area to remain.
Mr. Robertson stated that the changes in the Comprehensive Plan allows more residential
development in this area in the future.
Mr. Nichols asked how big would the building be with the change in size?
Mr. Ahmann said six feet shorter. He wants a shop inside of it. Doesn't want to let the motor
home sit outside.
Ms. Nagel asked if the motor home was on a pad when she inspected the property, is that were
you are planning on the garage? Answer: No, 50 to 75' back from that, but the pad size is approximately
the same.
Mr. Nichols asked if he is putting the garage where the boat and blazer are? Answer: No,
further back, closer to the tree line. The building will be North of the vehicles where they are currently.
He will plant more pine trees N. of the lot.
Mr. Heidner asked if he planned concrete floor? Answer: Applicant is hoping to have gravel.
More discussion of same and applicant stated he felt 2 x 4 construction is the way he will build.
Mr. Rask stated he thought we adopted an ordinance that stated the accessory building could not
exceed the footprint of the home. Mr. Licht stated you can exceed the sq. ft. of the home with a CUP.
Mr. Goenner agreed with Jim Kolles that 3200 sq. ft. building in a residential neighborhood,
even with Ag. surrounding it, is not appropriate for those size lots. If this is approved, condition of
screening around the building should be added.
Mr. Nichols agreed that a pole building in this area should not be built, but a large stick built
building is proper.
Mr. Goenner would rather see a stick built building, but feels the size is too large. Discussion of
size and need. Applicant stated he has classic cars and more items up north he would like to be able to
store in this building.
Mr. Mbanefo noted that the applicant has made changes tonight, does that take care of the City
Engineers issues?
Mr. Robertson felt the site is large enough to take care of the issues. He will have Mr. Ahmann
call the City Engineer.
Mr. Rask asked what the present three car garage is that used for? Mr. Ahmann said two cars
and the third stall is lawn and garden equipment.
There was no more comment.
The Public Hearing was closed.
Mr. Mbanefo stated he shares the concern of Mr. Kolles and Mr. Goenner. He heard the
applicant say it is a unique use. He is not sure of how this has been handled in the past.
Ms. Nagel felt it is too big for the area, because of it being residential in character. She can see
something smaller. Applicant asked if less width would be acceptable? Ms. Nagel answered that to her
the length is more of a problem than the width. There was more discussion of size of building and what
was to be stored there.
Mr. Nichols questioned if twenty feet was removed from the proposed building and make it stick
built, would it be better? Some of the stuff could be stored off site.
RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND DENIAL FOR CUP FOR THE
CURRENT REQUEST FOR THE SIZE OF THE BUILDING. ARLEEN NAGEL SECONDED
THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
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Mr. Nichols said a smaller building would be looked at more favorably by him.
Mr. Licht stated that the Planning Commission can make a recommendation to the size and type
of building to the City Council.
Mr. Nichols said the 40 x 60' would be OK with him. The overall size should be in that size
area. He would like to see the length shorter. The Planning Commission could continue his request.
RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO RESCIND HIS MOTION. JIM KOLLES SECONDED
THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. MOTION WAS RESCINDED.
RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING APPLICATION
FOR THE CUP BY MARK AHMANN SO APPLICANT CAN COME BACK WITH A REVISED
BUILDING PLAN. CHRISTIAN MBANEFO SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED
UNANIMOUSLY.
Mr. Rask asked if the 2400 sq. ft.of accessory space included the attached garage? Answer No.
Proposed building roughly 2400 sq ft with 2 x 4 construction was the clarification.
NOTE: This item to be continued to the Planning Commission Meeting of October 21, 1998
at 8PM.
5 PUBLIC HEARING initiated by applicant/owner City Council for the City of Otsego application
for rezoning and subdivision of the proposed sewer treatment plant site. PID #118-802-01201 located
North of Co. Rd. #36 and East of State Hwy. #101 (Old Frankfort Area N. of the Crow River).
Request is as follows:
1. Rezoning from A-1 District to INS District
2. Approval of a variance from Section 21-7-4.E of the Subdivision
Ordinance to allow a lot without required frontage to a public street
3. Approval of a lot without direct access to a public street per Section
21-7-4.F of the Subdivision Ordinance
4. Subdivision approval
Dan Licht explained NAC's Report dated September 28, 1998 for the above application for Lahn
property for the sewer plant. Elaine Beatty noted that the proper publication, posting and mailings had
been completed. The property is Zoned A-1 (General Agricultural) now and request is rezone to INS
(Institutional). No Variance is required Re: Street frontage if property is rezoned INS. Conclusion is
NAC recommends approval. Appropriate land use is a policy decision and no specific recommendation
for the policy. The 1991 and 1998 Otsego Comprehensive Plans do support it. He read the conditions 1 -
4 from Pg. #2 of approval.
Public Hearing opened to the Public.
Tom Korowitz The map I have, the site looks like more than 10 acres. (Dan Licht
17069 53RD ST NE explained the map he has shows the entire 51 acre parcel). The 10
Otsego, MN. Acres in question is in the NW corner of the property. Tom asked if
the City of Otsego owns it now? Answer: Yes. Does the City intend
to buy more land? Answer: No. Tom felt it was a good time to
buy more land for the future.
No other comment
Discussion was brought back to P.C.
Mr. Mbanefo questioned the easement 40' width then goes to a smaller easement. Mr. Licht
stated the smaller easement is the discharge pipe to the river.
Mr. Heidner. This is the first of a few similar applications from the City you will see. You
might see one application a month re: sewer and water. He discussed that we are not being treated any
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING OF OCTOBER 7, 1998 - 8PM
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different than any other public service application as far as driveways and paving requirement. He cited
other applicants like Jones Intercable and the low traffic volume as reasons for not paving.
Mr. Robertson noted that another reason for not paving the site is that the insurance company
says it can be a liability issue on isolated sites -and pavement, with skateboarders, etc. using the areas.
Mr. Goenner asked if we would give the same consideration to other applicants? Mr. Heidner
said yes. Look at Darkenwald and UPA power substation. Mr. Goenner agrees, but said that the two
examples given were grandfathered in. Mr. Heidner said not Darkenwalds use. Mr. Nichols said the
telephone towers was another example of gravel surface being allowed.
Discussion was brought back to the public. No one spoke.
Public Hearing was closed by Vice Chair Rask.
Discussion was brought back to the Planning Commission.
EUGENE GOENNER MOTIONED TO REZONE THE OTSEGO OWNED PORTION OF THE
LAHN PROPERTY FROM A-1 (GENERAL AGRICULTURE) TO INS (INSTITUTIONAL).
ARLEEN NAGEL SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE SUBDIVISION REQUEST FOR THE
APPROXIMATE 10 ACRE SITE FOR THE WASTEWATER TREATMENT FACILITY WITH
THE CONDITIONS IN NAC'S REPORT DATED SEPTEMBER 28, 1998. CHRISTIAN
MBANEFO SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY.
This request will be on the October 12, 1998 Council Meeting Agenda.
6. Planning Commission will review proposed Zoning Ordinance Amendments
Dan Licht explained NAC's Report of September 29, 1998. The white pages are the proposed
amendments and the colored pages are the actual amendment after all the change. He began with
discussion of proposed amendments. Discussion of the Third Industrial District. Allows for Class 5
surfacing instead of hard surface for outside storage or sales
Mr. Nichols questioned Pg. 7, 20-76-8: Maximum site coverage. Should read "30%", not 30 Ft.
Mr. Licht agreed.
Mr. Licht noted that continuous foundations were not required.
Mr. Nichols - Clarification. Are we saying don't have to have continuous poured
foundation, but need poured floor? Dan Licht - Yes.
Mr. Goenner - For Industrial Post and Beam, do we require heavy grade siding metal ? Dan
Licht - Said it will be discussed next in Zoning Ordinance.
Pg. 9. Building Material.
Mr. Goenner asked if we can require 16 gauge sheetmetal? Mr. Licht will review that.
Mr. Licht reviewed exemptions from the curb requirements.
Mr. Rask talked about Eden Prairie requirements and do we allow people to use the
lowest grade possible? Mr. Licht replied that all it does is no curb is required around the driveways.
Mr. Goenner said on the executive golf course we did not require curb, because it was considered
a temporary use.
Mr. Robertson suggested we leave the curb issue to City Engineers recommendation.
Mr. Licht agreed. Mr Licht noted the ord. is written now so no curb is automatically required.
Mr. Robertson said the third industrial area is now metal building, post and beam construction
and gravel storage areas. There was discussion of how much land available for the Third Industrial area.
Mr. Licht noted that this is limited to the Old Frankfort area. The other Industrial sites are I-1 or I-2
standards.
Building setbacks - Adm. change in classification of roads. Setback increase on collector streets.
Discussion of requiring enough room on building plans for a 3 -car garage. Reflects current
trend in building. After much discussion of the issue and no conclusion, it was noted that Dan Licht will
bring back more information for the P.C. on this item (examples). We will start with this item for next P.
C. Meeting discussion.
CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING CONNISSION MEETING OF OCTOBER 7, 1998 - 8PM
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7. Any other P.C. Business
A. Mr. Robertson brought up October 1, 1998 NAC Wild and Scenic Plan Position Statement
and explained further. He requested that the P.C. read it and get in contact with Mr. Robertson or Ms.
Beatty if they have any comments, as it will be reviewed for possible approval at the Council Meeting of
October 12, 1998.
B. Mr. Heidner suggested to P.C. might want to modify meeting date of the P.C. in 1999,
where the P.C. moves to Monday night or the Council moved to Wed. Night meetings in order to have a
full week in between the P.C. Meeting and the Council Meeting to have time for revised reports and allow
the applicants to move along in the process in a timely manner. He asked the P.C. to think about it and
have this on the next P.C. meeting for a discussion item.
S. Adjourn by IOPM
Carl Swenson motioned to adjourn the meeting. Richard Nichols seconded the
motion. Motion carried unanimously.
r
es Kolles, Secretary
Minutes by: Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Recording Secretary
eb
File 98PCMIN.WPS