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10-21-98 PCCITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OCTOBER 21ST, 1998 - 8PM 1 Chair Carl Swenson will call meeting to order: Chair Swenson called the meeting to order at 8PM ROLL CALL: Pinning, Commission: Carl Swenson, Chau, Arleen Nagel, Richard Nichols, Gene Goenner, Bruce Rask, and Jim Kolles. Christian Mbanefo, Alternate and Ing Roskaft, Planning Commission Members had excused absences. Council Members: Virginia Wendel, Alternate Council Rep., and Mayor Larry Fournier. Vern Heidner, Council Rep., excused absence. Staff: Daniel Licht, Assistant Planner and Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Administrator 2. Consideration of the Planning Commission Minutes of - A. Planning Commission Meeting of October 7 1998 BRUCE RASK MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF OCTOBER 7, 1998 AS WRITTEN. RICHARD NICHOLS SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 3. Re -Consideration of the conditions of approval of the Conditional Use Permit dated August 10, 1998 for Keith Knutson PID #118-500-332401, 6630 Odean Avenue NF., Otsego. NLN. (See attached Memo from Dan Licht and information from Keith Knutson, Owner)_ Chair Swenson asked the Planning Commission if there was any questions or comments. Richard Nichols asked what size is the lot? Almost 5 acres applicant Knutson answered. Mr. Nichols questioned the reference to the hobby farm and relating to animals. Mr. Licht said it related to the definition of hobby farm in the ordinance. The P.C. may find that the property may be defined as a hobby farm and exempt from the accessory building requirements. Applicant Knutson said he has indicated the long-term use for his property. (2 -acres organic farm, classic cars, animals, etc.) Chair Swenson did not feel information presented changed his view on the number of buildings allowed. Mr. Rask asked if the hobby farm status is determined by the owner. He talked about the AG -1 zoning and pole buildings being allowed in these areas in the past. If in the Urban area its different, but this is Ag land. Mr. Nichols questioned if the P.C. needs to deem the property a hobby farm or can the owner buy an animal and it then becomes a hobby farm? Answer: P.C. has to determine if hobby farm. How is this property taxed? City Clerk noted it is Ag - Residential use so taxed as residential and size of lot, but zoned A-1. Mr. Knutson stated he prefers farm (AG) taxes. Ms. Nagel stated she has a problem with the number of buildings. Chair Swenson asked if the information supplied justifies a change in the CUP Conditions? Mr. Nichols didn't feel the plan meets bobby farm criteria at this point. He prefers to see the applicant carry out his plans. It is a residential lot in an AG area currently. The following was recommended to the Council: RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO RECOMMEND TO THE CITY COUNCIL NOT TO RECONSIDER THE CONDITIONS OF THE CUP FOR KEITH KNUTSON. ARLEEN NAGEL SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED 4 TO 1 WITH BRUCE RASK VOTING AGAINST. Mr. Knutson noted he needs to get the hobby farm status before he meets the criteria. Chair Swenson noted that the P.C. can only consider the three extra buildings for action. Mr. Knutson stated he never consider his property to be a residential property. The purpose is a hobby farm. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF OCTOBER 21, 1998 8PM- PAGE 2 - Chair Swenson noted that Mr. Knutson pays residential taxes. Mr. Knutson noted he would rather pay AG Taxes. Mr. Swenson asked that Mr. Knutson attend the Council Meeting as they make the final determination. Mr. Knutson stated he wanted everyone to understand this is a farm use. Note: This will be on the City Council Agenda of October 26, 1998 at 6:30PM. 4. Continuation of PUBLIC HEARING initiated by applicant/owner Mark J. Ahmann and Terese P. Ahmann 9426 Large Court NE, Otsego, MN 55330. PID #118-156-001050, in Sec. 13, Twp 121, Rang 2e 4. Legal description is Lot 5, Block 1, Rolling Ridge Creek The property is Zoned A-1 (General Agricultural - Rural Service Area) Located South of County Road #39 and East of County Rd. #19 (LaBeaux) City of Otsego, Wright County, Mn. MN. Request is as follows: 1 A Conditional Use Permit to allow the following: A. Accessory building size greater than 1,500 sq _ on a single fami y lot B. Total accessory area greater than 2,000 sq, ft, on a single family lot. D. Pole building construction within the A-1 (General Agricultural District) Note: Applicant will build a 2x4 constructed building if necessary) Daniel Licht, Assistant Planner gave the report of NAC dated October 14, 1998. He explained the additional information provided. Applicant is proposing a smaller, stick built building 2,400 sq ft relocated to the extreme North corner of the lot away from the houses and with screening. The P.C. needs to evaluate revised information from Mr. Ahmann and determine if the building is compatible with the character of the area. Conditions of approval have been provided. Dan read Conditions one - five. Arleen Nagel questioned applicant re: current pad on premises. Applicant replied that the site has not yet been changed. The current pad will be regraded and seeded. Chair Swenson re -opened the Hearing to the Public. He explained the formal procedure. Mr. Ahmann He has letters of approval from the builder and two 9426 Large Court - Applicant Owner neighbors who live there. Otsego, MN. NO ONE ELSE SPOKE. DISCUSSION BACK TO THE P.C. Gene Goenner wanted one additional condition stating screening to be provided. Mr. Ahmann stated he was planning on doing that and pine trees will be planted as a wind block Dan Licht noted that it is included in Condition #las part of the site plan. HEARING WENT BACK TO THE PUBLIC. No one spoke. CHAIR SWENSON CLOSED THE PUBLIC HEARING. Back to the P.C. for discussion. RICHARD NICHOLS MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT SUBJECT TO 5 CONDITIONS OF NAC'S REPORT. GENE GOENNER SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION DEFEATED 3 TO 3. RICHARD NICHOLS, CARL SWENSON AND BRUCE RASK VOTED YES AND ARLEEN NAGEL, JIM KOLLES AND GENE GOENNER VOTED NO. Bruce Rask - By approving this we are saying we can have 3,200 sq ft of storage? Questioned why we do not allow three buildings for Knutson that do not come close to this for square footage. Richard Nichols - felt the two not related as this is a larger building, stick built. Bruce Rask - This is twice the footprint of the home. Is this a precedent? This is Residential, on a cul -du -sac from deed restricted farm land. Jim Kolles agreed it is too large a building on this size lot. On Co. Rd. #39 it will not look like much of a residential area. If you let one in the rest will like something similar. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF OCTOBER 21, 1998 8PM -PAGE 3 - Chair Swenson - Last time it was so large, the request was to make it smaller. It is still so large it is excessive for a residential area. Bruce Rask - Everyone has the right to storage. More than 5 to 6 cars should be limited. More discussion of size of building and being excessive. Richard Nichols - You are not doing zoning. You are approving or disapproving the CUP. CM Wendel questioned 3,200 sq ft changed to 2,400 sq ft. That is 800 sq ft difference than the original CUP. Does the P.C. feel their request is conformed with? Chair Swenson - CUP we have not established a cap on size. That is the problem here. I have a problem with this size. Arleen Nagel - I'm still trying to get a visual. More discussion of the size of buildings. Mr. Ahmann - Aren't we zoned AG? It is A-1 Zone. Elaine Beatty explained the Ag. cluster development - one per forty transfer with deed restriction on farmland. It was noted that it is the question of property use, present and future that the P. C. is struggling with. Chair Swenson - AG Zoning now is confusing. It sounds like it should be a farm. More discussion of A-1 Zoning and residential use. Dan Licht - In terms of Zoning and use of property they are in an allowed single family and Ag Use. Farms are different than residential property, but zoned the same. Use is different. We may be looking at Ag/Res. zoning district. Mr. Rask would like it to go to Council and let them know the discussion and split opinion. CM Wendel was asked to explain to the Council, the P.C. discussion. Mr. Nichols noted we may want to consider a sliding scale for building size based on the lot size. Chair Swenson agreed as well and a change of zoning in the Ag area. 5. PUBLIC HEARING applicant/owner _Tames Bales, 8888 O'Dell Ave NE, Otsego, Mn. PID #118- 018-002100 Lot 10, Block 2, Halls Addition, R-3 Zoned property in Sec. 21, Twp.121,R23. Request is as foilows• A Conditional Use Permit to allow the following A. More than one detached accessory building, on a single family lot" Elaine Beatty noted that the proper mailing, posting and publishing was completed. Dan Licht gave NAC's Report of October 2, 1998. He noted a CUP is required as well as an Administrative Permit if the City approves the CUP. He read Pg. #2, 1 - 5 conditions. Chair Swenson asked if applicant wished to present any additional information? He did not. PUBLIC HEARING WAS OPENED TO THE PUBLIC. Brian Zilka As in all cases, they want to build so stuff is not outside. You want to 9402 Large Court take it away. Stuff outside is an eyesore. Richard Linehan My lot is obscured and I would like to have another building. I want 7746 River Road my storage inside. Keith Knutson Where did the directive come from for limited amount of buildings? Why 6630 Odean was it adopted? Carl Swenson - It was adopted by the City, as the best judgment of the professionals and City Council and Planning Commission. Does it have to do with appearance of the property? Length of the property? I am growing arborvitaes all around the property. It is not practical to walk 400 feet to get a rake. He did not like vinyl siding - Its garbage. I can't have the attractive building that I want? What's the limitation? There are too many restrictions. Chair Swenson - We are doing the best that we can to protect you and your neighbors and I ask that you restrict your comments to this Hearing. NO ONE ELSE SPOKE Discussion was brought back to the P.C. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF OCTOBER 21, 1998 8PM -PAGE 4 - Arleen Nagel - Questioned the garage size. It was noted that he was under the 2,000 sq. ft. limit at 1,700 sq ft total. Bruce Rask - In our ordinance it prohibits motor homes from being parked outside. He talked about how much you can get in this size building. He believes we should store stuff inside, not outside. PUBLIC HEARING WAS BROUGHT BACK TO THE PUBLIC. No one spoke. PUBLIC HEARING WAS CLOSED BY CHAIR CARL SWENSON GENE GOENNER MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT TO ALLOW MORE THAN ONE DETACHED ACCESSORY BUILDING ON A SINGLE FAMILY LOT, SUBJECT TO THE 5 CONDITIONS LISTED IN NAC'S REPORT. ARLEEN NAGEL SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. It was noted that this item will be on the October 26, 1998 Council Meeting Agenda at 6:30PM 6. Planning Commission will review proposed Zoning Ordinance Amendments (Cont from 1017/98 where we left off Pg. #11 middle SINGLE FANM,Y ACCESSORY B DINSTANDARDS Dan Licht will provide more information on same ) Dan Licht explained his memo of October 14, 1998 re: Garage Orientation. There are basic illustrations with options. Require all or a portion of the garage to be behind or in front of the house. Gene Goenner - Look at the lot width and put large frontage in the ordinance. Discussion of lot size was had. Discussion of current standards 150' width minimum with overlay for further splits. Elaine Beatty - Noted that 75' is the minimum width, they can go larger. Dan Licht - felt the market would dictate. Mr. Goenner - Wants to see width wider than 75'. Mr. Rask - Felt wider width gives you flexibility. Discussion of 3 -car garage footprint being required to be shown. Chair Swenson- Let the market dictate. LEAVE THE GARAGE AS 2 -CAR MINIMUM SIZE WAS THE CONSENSUS. Accessory Building size: Page 12, survey discussed. 480 sq ft minimum with attached garage. 1,150 sq ft total maximum with 150 sq ft detached accessory bldg. B. Two Family Uses - added 2. Page 13 - Increased to 25% Page 15 A and B - Drop - "except by CUP" - AGREED Page 16 C - added INS District Page 17 - Added Re: Environmental Review The EIS is part of the administrative process and the Zoning Administrator informs the applicant. Mr. Goenner questioned if we would have the State notify the people? Dan Licht answered this is in the State Statutes that the City can require it without this Ordinance. Tree Preservation: Ordinance was strengthened. Changes in the Subdivision and Zoning Ordinance. Mr. Licht explained that it looks complex, but it is almost the same as submitting a grading plan. It is fairly detailed - outlines performance on a larger scale and home builder on individual lots. It outlines how protected and identifies which trees will be saved. If those are damaged, they need a replacement policy. Page 28 - Definitions added related to Tree Preservation. Eugene Goenner questioned the $500.00 security. For each significant tree said Mr. Licht. Page 29 - Zoning Ordinance Administration: F. Removed and added new F. underlined. The P.C. discussed and agreed to every Wednesday in November 8PM Meetings to speed up the Ordinance process. (Four meetings in November). The Rural Cluster District will be reviewed next, then the Agricultural and Feedlot. CITY OF OTSEGO PLANNING COMMISSION MEETING MINUTES OF OCTOBER 21, 1998 8PM -PAGE 5 - Chair Swenson asked CM Wendel to ask the Council if they could work with the P.C. on the remainder of Ordinance changes in joint meetings. CM Wendel - Wants the moratorium off ASAP. 7. Any other P.C. Business A. Discussion of change of P.C. Meeting Day. Chair Swenson explained Staff problems with Wednesday P.C. Meetings and the request from CM Heidner to consider moving the regular P.C. Meeting to the first and third Monday from Wednesday. It would be a big benefit to the public. THE CONSENSUS OF THE P.C. WAS TO CHANGE THE DAY FROM WEDNESDAY TO MONDAY - FIRST AND THIRD AT 8PM TIME. THEY WILL DISCUSS FURTHER AS TO WHEN THIS CHANGE WILL OCCUR. POSSIBLY THE FIRST OF JANUARY. Mr. Licht explained that the I-3 Zoning had required curbing for three applications approved in that area. The Engineer is concerned with drainage. Does P.C. want exemption from curbing in this district? CONSENSUS OF THE P. C. WAS TO REMOVE 'EXEMPTION' FROM THE CURBING. CURBING WILL BE REQUIRED IN THE I-3 ZONING DISTRICT. Richard Nichols had visited Ing Roskaft and he said HELLO to everyone. He is still in the hospital. 8. Adjourn by JOPM ARLEEN NAGEL MOTIONED AND BRUCE RASK SECONDED TO ADJOURN THE P.C. MEETING. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 10:30PM. JA ES KOLLES, SECRETARY Minutes by Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Recording Secretary File: 98PCMIN. WPS