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12-09-98 PCCITY OF OTSEGO JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION/ CITY COUNCIL MEETING MINUTES WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1998 - 8PM 1. Chair Carl Swenson will call meeting to order- Chair Swenson called the meeting to order at 8:07PM. ROLL A.I.: Carl Swenson, Chair, Arleen Nagel, Eugene Goenner, Bruce Rask, Richard Nichols and James Kolles Planning Commission Members were present. Christian Mbanefo, Alternate was absent. Council Members Vern Heidner, Virginia Wendel, Suzanne Ackerman, and Mark Berning. Mayor Larry Fournier was absent. Staff, Mike Robertson, City Administrator, Elaine Beatty, City Clerk/Zoning Administrator and Dave Licht, City Planner 2. Consideration of the Planning Commission Minutes of* A November 30, 1998 P_ C. Special Meeting EUGENE GOEVNER MOTIONED TO APPROVE THE MINUTES OF NOVEMBER 30, 1998 P.C. SPECIAL MEETING AS WRITTEN. ARLEEN NAGEL SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. 3. Hearing for the proposed Zoning Ordinance Amendments; An Ordinance Amending the Otsego Zo ingOrdinance Establishing Provisions and Regulations for Rural Opgn Space Cluster Development to Respond to directives Outlined in the Comprehensive Plan Update to Allow Such Development Within the Rural Residential Preserve Chair Swenson gave a brief overview and Elaine Beatty noted that the proper publication and postings were completed. David Licht, City Planner gave a summary of the changes for the area North of County Road #39. This is in the Rural Residential Area and R -C is the name of the new zone . This allows a higher density of residential development as a trade off for preservation of open space. Design standards and examples are provided. The minimum lot size would be one to two and one-half acres depending on the ability of the land to sustain two septic fields. Due to commonly owned open spaces, the ordinance goes into considerable amount of detail on homeowners association, land trust, etc. The setbacks are typical of residential districts within the community. Dave Licht suggested the accessory building regulations not be adopted at this point, as we will be reviewing them shortly. The R -C District is also being added to the Conditional Use Permit to allow animals, the same as the A-2 District. Chair Swenson noted the procedure for the Public Hearing which is on the back of the agenda, and asked for comments.. PUBLIC HEARING OPENED TO THE PUBLIC CITY OF OTSEGO JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL MEETING WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1998 - 8PM - PAGE 2 - Chris Bulow Wanted clarification of density allowed in R -C District 9380 Napier Avenue 10 per 40 and 4 per 40 is listed. Did that change? Otsego, MN. Chris Bulow thought it was based on 4 per 10 acres. Chair Swenson replied that 4 per 40 is the base zoning and 10 per 40 with clustering is allowed. CM Berning arrived at 8:15P.M. No one else spoke. Discussion was brought back to the P.C. Richard Nichols - Asked Dave Licht if he is recommending to approve the cluster district zoning ordinance amendment with the deletion of Sec. 3, Pages 17 and 18? Mr. Licht answered yes. Discussion was brought back to the public. Harold Grotte I understand you are saying you are not dealing with 12888 - 95TH ST NE accessory buildings? Answer: Correct Otsego, Mn. No one else spoke. HEARING WAS CLOSED Brought back to the Planning Commission for discussion. EUGENE GOENNER MOTIONED TO ADOPT THE RURAL CLUSTER DISTRICT ORDINANCE WITH DELETION OF SECTION #3. RICHARD NICHOLS SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. It was noted that this will be on Monday 6:30 12/14/98 Council Meeting. 4 Review of Accessory Buildings for the Large Lot Unsewered Development and any other proposed Zoning Ordinance changes. The Planning Commission and City Council members joined to discuss the Accessory Buildings for the Large Lot Unsewered Development. David Licht explained that accessory buildings are always an issue in any community. The majority of the time accessory buildings have been dealt with as conditional uses. If those applications for conditional uses can be eliminated, it will make the ordinance easier to understand and enforce. Mr. Licht explained the Memo of November 24, 1998. Farm operations are exempt from this subsection as are ten acre parcels. Mike Robertson - Regardless of what we call a hobby farm, under ten acres is not accessed as a hobby farm by the County. It is accessed as residential. Virginia Wendel - Ten acres or more as a hobby farm, how many animals? Mr. Licht explained that no animals are required. CITY OF OTSEGO JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL MEETING WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1998 - 8PM - PAGE 3 - Gene Goenner - Asked for a clarification of the Rural Service Area. Is it the Ag area only or is the 4 per 40 area included that are in the City now? Mr. Licht explained that A-1, A-2, R- 1, R-2, R-3 and R -C zoning districts are included in the Rural Service Area. Vern Heidner noted we need to have a map of the Rural Service Area. Mr. Robertson showed the map that it is basically west of Nashua with a small section east of Nashua. Gene Goenner, if the area east of Nashua is not in the Rural Service Area, what about the farms in that area, with regard to accessory use regulations? Mr. Licht - They are exempt, as are hobby farms of 10 acres or more. Mr. Heidner - More than one detached accessory building may be appropriate in this area. We are opening things up in the rural area. Mr. Licht - The ordinance states that no accessory building can exceed the size of the principal structure. The area west of Nashua is exempt from that requirement. We are eliminating the exception under ten acres except for mobile homes. More discussion on mobile homes. Mr. Heidner - currently with a CUP people can have up to 2,000 sq. ft regardless of the size of the house. I don't feel we should take that away. Mr. Licht said that it is still in the ordinance. Mr. Heidner thought the issue is how much above 2,000 sq. ft do you allow. Mr. Licht said two issues: 1. Do you want the CUP process eliminated? 2. Do you want a 2,000 sq. ft standard? Chair Swenson noted discussion has been to eliminate the CUP process and maintain the 2,000 sq. ft maximum with flexibility. Mr. Heidner felt that the ordinance should be so much accessory space for the first acre and so much more for each acre over one. Page 4: Add, so much per acre over one acre and 500 sq. ft per acre over one said Richard Nichols. The area west of Nashua, Rural Service Area; or R-3 district area east of Nashua, accessory buildings not to exceed the size of the house, because that area will be urban in the future. Mr. Nichols also felt we need a matrix put together showing current and proposed allowances for accessory buildings. Mr. Licht agreed with this. Discussion of some areas east of Nashua that will remain large lot for a number of years and some way to allow larger accessory buildings in that area. Mr. Robertson - There should be distinction between the severed area and the sewer expansion area. Mr. Heidner felt some areas may never get sewer. He felt the 2,000 sq. ft. maximum for accessory buildings should not be taken away. Mr. Goenner - Page 4, No. 4, with the exception of manufactured homes is my concern. It could be a large mobile home and a smaller house. I agree with Mr. Heidner that we need a flat number of square footage as a maximum. Richard Nichols asked Mr. Goenner and Mr. Heidner if they agree that there should be no difference in the size of accessory buildings based on acreage? Mr. Goenner - Said he would like a set number of sq. ft. More discussion was had. Mr. Goenner - Look at lots, not house size. That way we won't discriminate against a person with a smaller home. Base it on lot size and location. CITY OF OTSEGO JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL MEETING WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1998 - 8PM - PAGE 4 - Chair Swenson - Noted that Mayor Fournier called and could not make this meeting and asked that consideration be given to lot sizes in regards to accessory buildings. Mr. Heidner - Would like exception for mobile homes taken out of there. Mr. Licht said the exception was allow them a larger accessory building. They are not restricted to size of the house. Mr. Licht - If you want a revision and are not concerned with the house size, and a cap in the district tied to lot size and location, we will have to revise it and bring it back to you. Mr. Heidner - I am not opposed to tying it to the house size. Discussed the small house, large accessory building scenario. Mr. Nichols - Follow through on the base acre and add so much per acre and put a cap on it. Based on the size of the house size or absolute size. We need more fixed rules, while making allowances. Mr. Licht wondered if this ran counter to what Mr. Goenner and Ms. Wendel said? Chair Swenson - It appears that Mr. Licht can come back with information for discussion. Mr. Licht - The whole issue of minimum size will change other discussion items. The Size of buildings in A-1, A-2, R -C, R-1, R-2 and R-3 districts, the total area of all detached buildings, not to exceed 1,000 sq. ft plus 500 sq. ft for each acre of lot greater than one acre. (Example: 2 -acres - 1,500 sq. ft, 3 -acres - 2,000 sq. ft.etc.) Up to two detached buildings permitted in area of at least two acres in the rural service area. Mr. Goenner - I have a problem, Page 5, Number 1. A ten acre lot would allow 5,400 sq. ft accessory building. I feel it is excessive. Mr. Licht - You want a cap? Mr. Goenner felt he did. Mr. Rask suggested up to 4,000 sq. ft or so. Mr. Berning - I agree 5,500 sq. ft is too much. In assuming over ten acres and existing farms (farms exempt) would consider allowing two detached accessory structures down to five acres. Ten acres takes more to maintain that property. Put it to five acres, not ten acres. Allow more building without a CUP. (There was general agreement to this.) Pole building issue: Proposed: Pole buildings allowed on five acre or greater as permitted in A- 1, A-2 with a CUP providing that the lot is in the rural service area. Issue: Is pole building compatible with an urban area? Answer: Greater than 5 -acres is the break-point. Mr. Licht - You have to have five acres to apply for a CUP pole building. Mr. Goenner - Is there a way to define pole building? Mr. Licht - Answer: Appearance and construction of the building. If in the urban area, you do not allow pole buildings. Mr. Licht - A number of changes are being looked at. For the benefit of the Planning Commission and audience, I will go back and draft this with a matrix so everyone has a chance to see it. Mike Robertson noted that the P.C. Meeting of the 16th of December was canceled due to lack of agenda items. The next Planning Commission Meeting is January 4, 1999 at 8PM (Monday). The accessory building information will be reviewed at that time. Revised CITY OF OTSEGO JOINT PLANNING COMMISSION/CITY COUNCIL MEETING WEDNESDAY, DECEMBER 9, 1998 - 8PM - PAGE 5 - information will be mailed to those who sinned up at toni-ht's meeting. 5. Any nth - P.C. Business None 6_ Adjou y1OPM BRUCE RASK MOTIONED TO ADJOURN THE MEETING. RICHARD NICHOLS SECONDED THE MOTION. MOTION CARRIED UNANIMOUSLY. MEETING ADJOURNED AT 9:20PM. J S KOLLE CRETARY MINUTES BY: ELAINE BEATTY, CITY CLERK (RECORDING SECRETARY) Re: 98PCMLY. WPS